Remote Rig

RRC 1258 Support in English => General discussion forum => Topic started by: sm0mdg on 2010-08-10, 14:52:11

Title: CW Keying
Post by: sm0mdg on 2010-08-10, 14:52:11
Is it just me or is the keyer a little "slippery" in B mode? I am used to Winkeyer (and Yaesu keyers which seems very similar to Winkeyer) and find the Remoterig keyer requiring a very precise release of paddles to avoid an extra dash or dot.

Is there any way to use Winkeyer with Remoterig? That would be useful with contest software or maybe someone...

73 de Björn
SM0MDG
SE0X
Title: Re: CW Keying
Post by: dj4mz on 2010-08-10, 15:46:16
Hi Björn,

Is it just me or is the keyer a little "slippery" in B mode? I am used to Winkeyer (and Yaesu keyers which seems very similar to Winkeyer) and find the Remoterig keyer requiring a very precise release of paddles to avoid an extra dash or dot.
I don't think it's just you, I have the same problem when changing between the Remoterig keyer at home and the Winkeyer at the contest station. It always takes some time to adapt to the "new" keyer.

vy 73, Simon (DJ4MZ)
Title: Re: CW Keying
Post by: DL7AV on 2010-08-15, 13:17:56
Indeed the keyer is a little slippery in B mode. When you stay on the dot paddle during the complete length of a dot another dot will be generated. Is that a bug or a feature? I would like that to be corrected, for the time being I have to use mode A.
73,  Thomas DL7AV
Title: Re: CW Keying
Post by: DL8HCZ on 2010-08-15, 17:53:06
Same experience here. First thought I made a config mistake,
but as you all report the same it looks like that it`s normal?
73 Joe, DL8HCZ
Title: Re: CW Keying
Post by: sm0mdg on 2010-08-23, 12:12:46
Mike, any ideas or comments?

A feature that I really would like to see is a K1EL (compatible) chip in the keyer, ready to connect to N1MM or other contest or logging software.

73 de Björn,
SM0MDG
SE0X
Title: Re: CW Keying
Post by: sm2o on 2010-12-16, 16:40:50
Hi

We have implemented a new keyer mode called "Iambic A2" in v2.30 for you who had problem with old A or B.

Pse try and let us know what you think ????


73 de mike
Title: Re: CW Keying
Post by: DL7AV on 2010-12-18, 12:17:45
hi ,

Thank you for the new features in firmware 2.30.
“New CW-keyer mode = Iambic A2, for you who have had problem with the old A and B, pse try”

Here is my comment about the CW-keyer performance:
Mode A2: Sorry still too many Dots (or dits): Transmitting DE puts out DI. We don’t need a dot memory during the transmission of a dot and the subsequent pause. There seems to be no Dash-Dot-memory, transmitting a K in the usual way puts out a M. I am not using squeeze keying but single lever. I have compared to K1EL winkey which is just perfect.

73,  Thomas  DL7AV
Title: Re: CW Keying
Post by: ea3in on 2010-12-18, 19:36:45
I am using Old type-squeece keyer option with lf delay = 500 ms and it is quite ok. No extra dits.500 ms was the solution in my case.
73s de Marcel
Title: Re: CW Keying
Post by: sm3ccm on 2010-12-18, 22:02:50
Thomas, DL7AV.
I do have exactly the same problem with the A2 keyer software as you have.
73 de Lars  SM3CCM
Title: Re: CW Keying
Post by: dj4mz on 2010-12-19, 12:36:47
Hi there,

tks for trying with the new keyer mode! But also for me same result. I use squeeze so trying to send K will result in N, same as in A1. So I will continue using Mode B as I'm now already used to it.

Also my reference is K1EL Winkey.

vy 73
Simon, DJ4MZ
Title: Re: CW Keying
Post by: dj0qn on 2011-01-12, 10:55:01
Has there been any further progress on fixing this problem with the
keyer? It makes the internal keyer pretty much useless until this problem
has been solved.

73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX
Title: Re: CW Keying
Post by: sm2o on 2011-01-12, 11:02:28
The only changes we have done, is to make the sidetone more distinctive, the upramping and down ramping is faster. We can not see that there is anything wrong with the keyer modes. And there is very few complains so it must be that people are used to different kind of keyers. But If someone can send us source code or specification about a new mode we can easily add a new mode.

73 de mike
Title: Re: CW Keying
Post by: dj0qn on 2011-01-12, 11:07:57
Hi Mike,

The problem is not that something new is needed, but the existing modes
add an extra dit. I know that Thomas DL7AV and Simon DJ4MZ have both
had issues, so maybe they can help you fix the problem. I haven't tried
CW yet with the newest firmware, maybe it has been fixed. Perhaps
Thomas and Simon can give their inputs after updating their firmware.

73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX
Title: Re: CW Keying
Post by: sm2o on 2011-01-12, 11:13:36
But since lot of people using the existing modes we can not change them. If we make modifications of the behaviour we need to make new modes.

73 de mike
Title: Re: CW Keying
Post by: DL7AV on 2011-01-16, 22:42:11
Mike, your last statement is rather disappointing: "But since lot of people using the existing modes we can not change them. If we make modifications of the behaviour we need to make new modes." The Remoterig internal keyer is a very good feature but you are forcing people like me to use an external keyer.

The fact is that you don’t need new modes, just improve e.g. A2. At present I cannot find any difference between modes “old type”, A1 and A2. Here is my detailed analysis:

wanted letter     E       N

output with:
old type      E   T
A1      E   T
A2      E   T
B      I   N

To explain:
With mode B we can store a dot when touching the dot paddle during the transmission of a dash. This is a good feature of mode B. If we don’t have this, a T would be transmitted instead of an N.
For some reason the dot memory is also active during the transmission of a dot (or maybe during the space right after the dot. So there will be an additional unwanted dot (I instead of E)! No CW operator would want this.

I understand Microbit is very busy but let me ask you: Don’t give up on that one! We don’t need it next week, but please give us hope on it.

Tnx, 73

Thomas  DL7AV
Title: Re: CW Keying
Post by: sm2o on 2011-01-16, 23:08:07
What I mean by not changing existing modes to satisfy some people, is that people who are using a mode and are satisfied with it will probably get in to problem if we change them. Thats why it's better to make a new so every one can keep on with the mode they are used to.

I will check how the sampling is done

73 de mike
Title: Re: CW Keying
Post by: DL4LAM on 2011-01-17, 22:37:21
Hello,

I´m a new remoterig user and upgraded my RRC from version 2.27 to version 2.32 today.

Unfortunately CW is not working as I expected. With v 2.27 (Mode B) I had one dit more , de became b i.
 
Now with version 2.32 in mode A-1 it worked, but the feeling wasn´t like my contest keyer (winkey).
Remoterig like K1EL would be my personal imagination.

I agree with Thomas, DL7AV,  that it´s an important issue.It hasn´t be solved until next week, but it has to be solved in reasonable time.

Thank you for developing a great product and please give us hope.

73 de Peter, DL4LAM
 
Title: Re: CW Keying
Post by: wu8c on 2011-01-18, 01:57:33
I am also having the very same keying problem (extra dit) but have another question.  I have my system hooked up as the IC-706 Control Head remote from the rig.  I am in Florida while my rig is in Michigan.  I am using Bencher paddle into the paddle jacks on the RRC-1258 Control going to the paddle jack on the RRC-Radio into the key input on the 706.  I there a simple way to configure the software setup that I can switch to an external keyer into the paddle jack on the RRC-Control and leave the rest of the electrical configuration the same?  I guess somehow it would have to look like a straight key to the 706.  Tom - WU8C
Title: Re: CW Keying
Post by: dj0qn on 2011-01-18, 07:48:18
Hi Tom,

Yes, no problem.....just read the manual, pages 61 & 62.

73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX
Title: Re: CW Keying
Post by: sm2o on 2011-01-20, 19:20:37
Hi

DL7AV gave us the clue to how to change the sampling in Iambic mode B. He and most of them above who have complained have now tested and are satisfied. It's not easy to fix thing if you just hear that something is wrong, we need to now what's wrong also.

73 de mike
Title: Re: CW Keying
Post by: dj0qn on 2011-01-20, 19:26:10
Thanks again for fixing this, Mike. Mode B now works the way I am
used to.

For everyone else to test (before upgrading), just send "CQ DE" in mode B.
If like me, you will send "CQ DI" most of the time. You kind of get used to
letting go quicker to send the E instead of the I, but that was a painful
work-around. I am happy that we were able to resolve this problem with
excellent teamwork.

73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX
Title: Re: CW Keying
Post by: sm3ccm on 2011-01-20, 19:34:59
Thanks to Thomas, DL7AV, and the team at Microbit for fixing the keyer problem. The built in keyer is now my friend instead of my enemy.

73 de Lars -  SM3CCM (J73CCM from Feb 20 to March 27)
Title: Re: CW Keying
Post by: DL4LAM on 2011-01-25, 22:33:04
Keying is fine now - thank you Mike for good support

73 de Peter, DL4LAM
Title: Re: CW Keying
Post by: w7fz on 2011-01-26, 18:29:09
Although I have not yet tried CW on Remoterig, I hope that there is a way to use Winkey.  I began using Winkey when I saw that the internal keyer within the TS480 (Kenwood) was a disaster.  The implementation of an internal keyer within Remoterig is a great feature, and hopefully the problem can be resolved or the use of an external keyer such as Winkey (K1EL) can be used by those wishing to do so.
w7fz  Robert
Title: Re: CW Keying
Post by: dj0qn on 2011-01-26, 18:36:28
Hi Robert,

No problem, you will find instructions how to do so in the manual on
pages 61 & 62.

73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX
Title: Re: CW Keying
Post by: sm0mdg on 2011-02-02, 14:53:08
Hi

DL7AV gave us the clue to how to change the sampling in Iambic mode B. He and most of them above who have complained have now tested and are satisfied. It's not easy to fix thing if you just hear that something is wrong, we need to now what's wrong also.

73 de mike

It works great now! I am still using Winkeyer with N1MM, but the internal keyer is where I want it to be after the fix.

Thanks Mike!