Remote Rig
RRC 1258 Support in English => General discussion forum => Topic started by: w9ac on 2016-12-15, 05:08:40
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I need to vacate DSL and look to a cellular solution at my rural remote site. Verizon covers my remote location with strong 4G service. Is there a cellular data transceiver or similar that accepts a SIM card and mimics a smart phone in hotspot mode? I am looking to use a small outdoor antenna for best reception. The goal is to connect a RemoteRig on a small LAN to the cellular transceiver. I am interested in specific model numbers and sellers. Thanks.
Paul, W9AC
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Paul,
Your biggest problem is that 4G consumer services do not provide you a public IP number, so they are not
reachable over the internet.
Either you need to first speak to them to see if you can upgrade to a (usually business) service that will give you
a public IP number, or else you will need to use a VPN to reach the radio RRC.
I highly suggest that you clarify this first before going ahead with any further purchase.
73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX
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Thanks, Mitch. Could my solution really be this easy:
https://www.verizonwireless.com/home-office-solutions/4g-lte-broadband-router-with-voice/
Specs show "4G Public Static IP Capable," multiple Ethernet ports, and SMA RF connector for external, directional antenna.
This looks product looks good too, but not sure if it 's Public Static IP capable.
https://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/lte-internet-installed/
Paul, W9AC
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Paul,
I think you misunderstood me....it doesn't make any difference what kind of hardware you use,
since none will do what you want with a consumer service. You need to first speak to them about
how you can get (i.e. pay for) a true external IP number to be able to host the radio RRC. The port
forwards will not work under a consumer service, because you are getting an internal IP number of
that service, so "double NAT" will prevent it from being accessible from the outside. That is why you
need to first clarify that point before buying any hardware. The other alternative would be to setup
a VPN, but that can be a hassle for many people.
73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX
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Looks like a public-accessible static IP can be purchased from Verizon Wireless for a one-time fee of $500. Ouch. But better than the alternative.
Paul, W9AC
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Paul,
I have used Verizon for my remote connection at my ranch for four years. you have to get a Fixed IP address from Verizon. I use Cradlepoint modem/router. It has been rock solid even when LTE rolls back to 4G or 3G. I have operated two day contests without any problems with the RRC or the Cradlepoint router.
NIZAR K0NM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Mitch & Nizar,
Many thanks for the feedback. Once a public-accessible static IP is purchased, this looks like a very good alternative to DSL. It will also be nice to get away from my Dynamic DNS service. Most of the time, it keeps up with the ISP's IP changes, but sometimes it doesn't.
Even with a bonded DSL circuit, the present site is limited to 1 Mbps on upload, although the DSL ISP appears to severely throttle-back upload bandwidth. And that's been the biggest headache when running a real-time SDR-IQ panadapter with an Elecraft K3. With the SDR-IQ's client/server application, my tests show approximately 3 Mbps is needed for smooth, jitter-free performance. While I can view the panadpater through TeamViewer or Real VNC, it's not the same and also adds to screen clutter. Further adding to the problem, as upload bandwidth is consumed with the panadapter, CW timing becomes affected.
I am in the process of moving the remote site one mile down a rural dirt road. Unfortunately, due to twists and turns, that adds about 3 miles of copper from the ISP's DSLAM and their engineering team believes performance will be noticeably degraded on upload. Verizon shows the "LTE Internet Installed" service is limited to 2-5 Mbps upload which will be marginal, but way better than 1 Mbps from the current DSL.
Paul, W9AC
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I Hope you are sorted by now Paul,
For the record i have also paid a premium for the mobile phone fixed IP address and it works just fine for me. I also tried VPN tunneling as well to avoid the high costs, but my computer skills weren't up to scratch. i know that some other ops have used a VPN successfully though.
73
Steve, M0BPQ
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I am using ICE.NET to connect my RRC-Radio to Internet.
I just had to ask ICE for an address in the public range.
No cost involved, and fixed withon 30 mins.
Works very well.
73 de Per-Tore / LA7NO
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You are lucky to live in a country that has a provider offering that service.
73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX
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I have just tested connecting the RRC-1258 Radio to a ZTE MF90+ 4G LTE router.
Used a Telenor/TalkMore SIM and was automatically given an IP-address in the public range. No extra cost. Only had to configure port-forwarding and set the APN to 'internet.public'.
Works very well.
73,
Per-Tore
LA7NO
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On station side I am using built in DDNS service in Dovado Tiny AC router with 4G-dongel Huawei E3372.
It works 100% all the time.
Various equipment supports Dynamic DNS more or less good. Dovado Tiny AC makes it the best way.
/Anders
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I need to vacate DSL and look to a cellular solution at my rural remote site. Verizon covers my remote location with strong 4G service. Is there a cellular data transceiver or similar that accepts a SIM card and mimics a smart phone in hotspot mode? I am looking to use a small outdoor antenna for best reception. The goal is to connect a RemoteRig on a small LAN to the cellular transceiver. I am interested in specific model numbers and sellers. Thanks.
Paul, W9AC
Paul
I use AT&T on a business account and have a public IP that costs 3.00 per month without a setup fee.
Not happy with the data throughput but it works fairly well for my Remote Rig. (I need to optimize my setup for better operation. In fact that is the reason I visited the forum today).
I use my Verizon phone with FoxFi for my mobile end.
73
Jim W7RY
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Verizon is set for the installation next week. I need a reality check concerning data usage: My RemoteRig runs 2 channel stereo, 8 kHz, 12-bits. The Verizon data service plan is sold in monthly 10, 20, and 30GB increments. Not that I would do it, but how much continuous data would be consumed for 30 days using the RemoteRig setup I described? I'll have other overhead like RealVNC and a few remote/host programs like PstRotator but that's all small in comparison to the audio stream. I also close VNC once a connection is made and let the remote/host programs take over.
My calculation shows approximately 165 GB for one month of continuous streaming at 16 kHz (2 channels x 8 kHz). With a 30GB monthly data plan, that's roughly 4.5 hours of streaming per day with no other applications overhead. Double the amount of time available (9 hours) if 2-channel audio is disabled.
Now, what I'm still unsure of is how this calculation relates to transceive operation. Do I need to cut the time in half if I ever run the RemoteRig in full duplex mode?
Paul, W9AC
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Paul,
There have been a few discussions on this topic on this forum already. I would look at some of them, such as:
http://www.remoterig.com/wp/?page_id=388
http://www.remoterig.com/forum/index.php?topic=641.msg2466#msg2466
http://www.remoterig.com/forum/index.php?topic=1740.msg7430#msg7430
I would never use full duplex mode. That would only be useful for a dual-band VHF/UHF transceiver, but not for HF.
For a second receiver, you would need to double the bandwidth per the link above.
73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX
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Mitch,
Thanks for the links. In one of the links, you indicate that Mode 7 is 100MB/hour. Mode 7 is 16 kHz, Linear, 12-bit (180 kbps). I normally use 2 channels at 8 kHz, Linear, 12-bit. But that mode shows 130 kbps which is not half of Mode 7. So, what is the actual data rate using Mode 2 (8k,12,Lin), with "Audio Dual-Rx" enabled for 2-channel audio? The same as Mode 7 with Audio Dual-Rx disabled? If so, I compute the following:
100MB/hour = 1GB for 10 hours. My Verizon plan will be 30 GB/month. 30GB = 300 hours. 300 hours/30 (days in a month) = 10 hours per day of 2 channel, 8 kHz, 12-bit coding.
Paul, W9AC
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Paul,
Looking in the manual in appendix A, audio quality 2 = 240kbps using dual channel. Yes, this is the
same as audio quality 7 single channel audio. This would take about 100MB per hour, excluding serial
ports and overhead. So your calculations are correct.
I honestly can recommend that you try a lower audio quality to see if you can tell any difference. I have
my stations set at 0 without any noticeable difference on SSB or CW. I am not an audio freak, but I
still suggest you also try a lower one just for comparison.
73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX
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Mitch,
Many thanks for confirming. This should work out well with Verizon's 30 GB plan.
Paul, W9AC
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Here's a quick update after last week's installation of Verizon's "LTE Internet Installed" service...
The install went fast and smooth. The antenna is up on a mast at about 10 feet above ground and getting 3/6 bars of signal strength that translates to the mid-acceptable dBm input level. Speed tests show approximately 12 Mbps download and 10 Mbps upload. Ping times are definitely longer with this service over DSL and it's more erratic. From my home to the site about 30 miles away, I see ping times range from 60 ms. to 300 ms. With DSL, I was seeing 40ms. to 80 ms.
The good news is the IP operates just like any cable or DSL ISP in that a public IP releases and renews every few days, making it possible to use any dynamic DNS service. If this had not worked, Verizon no longer allows the purchase of a static public IP for personal accounts. If you want a static IP, it's USD $500 but now you must upgrade the service to a more expensive commercial account. So far, my dynamic DNS has been tracking the rolling IP just fine. One nice feature of Verizon's router is that it allows for the dynamic DNS service to be polled right from the router; a client program on a PC isn't necessary. I have accessed the site using RealVNC, TeamViewer, and the client-server programs like PsTRotator all work fine.
I have NOT yet placed the K3 and RemoteRig at the site. The K3 is being updated with Elecraft's mods so there won't be an opportunity to try it for another few weeks. Of concern to me is the great variance in ping time and how that will affect CW. More to come...
Paul, W9AC
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Further update...
The Elecraft K3 is back at the remote site. After a day of testing, CW timing over the Verizon 4G/LTE network is excellent and so far, better than the bonded DSL circuit at its best.
When I logged into the remote site a few days ago, I noticed that signal strength as reported by the Verizon router was only 2/5 bars. At the time of installation, it was 4/5 bars. Here's what happened: The main Verizon site is about 3 miles away from us. That site went down a few days after the installation. The site with 2/5 bars comes from Crawford, FL, another 7 miles away.
The 4G router will not conduct another site survey until signal metrics drop below an amount determined in a setup menu. If 2/5 bars are "good enough," there it stays even if a stronger 4G cell site comes back on line. I think common cell phones do the same, only we see it much more active in a roaming/mobile environment. There's a certain level of hysteresis to avoid rapidly switching between cell sites with smaller changes in RF and SNR level.
Once we drop the towers on the base piers, we'll move the 4G antenna to the 100 ft. self-supporting tower and attach it about 30 ft. off the ground. That height will give us line-of-site to the main and secondary cell sites. The odds of both cell sites going down are much smaller than for a single site, especially if Verizon's cell sites are connected in a SONET fiber ring.
We're now into three weeks of service and the Dynamic DNS service has been tracking the public IP changes just fine. The final test occurred with the K3/RemoteRig and thankfully, it's working as planned.
"Crane day" is June 21. We're almost QRV again.
Paul, W9AC
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The 4G router will not conduct another site survey until signal metrics drop below an amount determined in a setup menu. If 2/5 bars are "good enough," there it stays even if a stronger 4G cell site comes back on line.
Paul, would the router connect to the stronger signal after rebooting?
Marvin VE3VEE
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Yes, after a reboot, a survey is initiated and looks for best signal quality. But if the current locked-on cell site goes down and a backup site is detected with signal quality above the acceptable threshold, then it will stay there until the next reboot -- or if that cell site goes down it will then lock onto another. So, it's important in this case to periodically poll the router for the current cell site. The router report shows detailed signal quality, cell site, and direction from the antenna.
Paul, W9AC