Remote Rig
RRC 1258 Support in English => Configuration, RRC 1258 => Topic started by: VA6OK on 2018-01-12, 03:38:01
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Hello. This is my third pair of RRC's and I have a new problem I haven't seen before. I bought this set used, so I'm not sure if something was set by the previous owner that could have done this. I set my SIP and audio ports in the RRC's and did the port forwarding in my router. All was good until I tried to connect and the units connect, SIP light goes yellow, but data does not flow back and forth. Looking at the Status tab on the web config page shows that the SIP In, Audio In, and Command In ports are all what I set them to, but the SIP Out, Audio Out, and Command Out have all automatically changed themselves to what appear to be random port numbers. I have no idea why it would do this. The unit came with the current 2.91 firmware in it. I have re-loaded the firmware and still the same result. Any ideas would be great. Thanks.
Dale VA6OK (formerly VE6DAP)
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Dale,
It is normal that these random numbers are used, however the three UDP ports that you set are used as well.
These are the ones that count.
Make sure that each set of RRC's uses unique port numbers and you should not have a problem. If it still doesn't
work, then I suspect a port forwarding error. I assume that you first tested it within the same network.
73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX
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Hello Mitch,
Yes, I tested it within the network and all was well. I just substituted one of my other RRCs in place of this one and I am having the same issue. So, the issue is not with the RRC. It must be like you say, with the port forwarding. I have used unique ports for each of my setups.
Just to be clear: I have assigned new SIP, audio, and command ports. As well, I assigned a new telnet port that is unique from the other RRC on this network.
Am I missing something?
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PS: I notice on my other RRC on the same network that it does not seem to get random port numbers. They all stay as I had set them. I followed all the same steps with the port forwarding, just used different numbers for the other RRC.
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Hi Dale,
That sounds correct; these three UDP ports are the key ones. The problem is for sure somewhere in your
router. Double check your entries there to make sure that all numbers are correct, they are forwarding to
the correct internal IP number and that you are using the correct protocol (UDP).
I assume you know that you can use the same SIP contact for all three RRC pairs, since you only have one
external IP number to forward to. The only difference will be the ports used. A lot of people think they need
to setup a separate DynamicDNS address for each device, which is not true.
73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX
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Oh. That is news to me with the SIP contact..... I hadn't thought of that, but it makes sense. I have updated the info in the new control RRC and it finds the proper radio RRC. I still have the same problem though. The SIP lights come on on each RRC, the web config status page for both the radio and control rrc both show that they are connected and transferring data, yet the radio head does not come on, no audio comes out, etc.... It is as if they are not connected, yet according to the status pages all looks normal.... with the exception of the random port numbers that show up on the radio rrc status page, as stated earlier.
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Strangely enough, it has worked a couple of times. It has powered up and all seemed normal. Then once I power it off, it will not connect again. I think 3 times out of about 50 tries, it has worked.
Is is necessary to use a separate Telnet Port for other RRC's on one IP address, or can they both use Port 23? I have tried it both ways and neither seemed to make any improvement.
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Hmmm. Very odd. As I work on things here, I just had it start up and work 100%. I tuned off the radio. Turned it back on and all was still good. Turned it off again and then it would not turn on again. It is back to having a SIP connection, but nothing else. The odd thing is that no settings changed in between when it worked and when it didn't.
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Sounds like a port conflict. What is the error message on the status page? I think you need to change at least
one of the port numbers you assigned to make it work. That would also explain the intermittent working.
Telnet is never used during normal operation, it is only there for debugging. I never recommend to even
forward it, since there is no need to and it causes security issues. Don't bother changing it from port 23, but
just don't forward it.
The SIP contact was just a tip from me; no need to make things more complicated than they have to be.
I would look into the port conflict possibility as your next step.
73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX
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Good Morning. Yes, I was thinking that would be a good next step. I will try that when I get home. Thanks and 73.
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Ok Mitch,
I set the Telnet Port back to 23 and nothing is forwarded to that port in the router.
The SIP contact has been changed to my other DDNS and that works fine as it is routing to my proper IP. So, the single SIP contact is working properly for the two units at this address.
I tried a different set of 3 ports for the SIP, Audio, and Command and these are providing the same result. I deleted the old forwarding out of the router and put the new ports in. Still the same problem. I even tried assigning the RRC to a DMZ and still no luck.
I think my next step may be to swap out RRC's and see if the problem follows any particular unit.
But I am incredibly open to ideas yet as I am at a loss here.....
Thanks
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Dale,
You never said what the error message is on the status page. That may help find the problem.
Save both RRC's settings in a .BIN file and import them after changing them to a different profile, but
reversing them so that each RRC has both settings in different profiles. Then you can try out the settings
on each RRC to see what the result is. Of course this only works if it is the same type of rig, but you can
tweak the differences under the radio settings or swap cables.
73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX
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Sorry Mitch,
I just realized I forgot to answer that. The funny thing is there is no error message. According to the status page, all is well and they are connected and transferring data, yet over the WWW the radio does not actually turn on. Over the LAN, all is ok.
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PS: I have swapped out both the radio and control RRCs and the problem still exists. So, there is something in either the configuration or the router. The problem does not lie in any particular RRC. I know that the router/modem would be the most likely culprit, but I've been over them multiple times and done the same thing as the working RemoteRig pair has. The port forwarding procedure was exactly the same, just with different ports. I initially tried the next 3 consecutive ports above the original set.... ie: 13003-13005. When that didn't work, I tried a completely different set of 3. That still doesn't work. The working pair keeps working and this pair keeps not working (regardless of which RRCs they actually are).
One fact I have not mentioned is that the original RemoteRig setup is a Kenwood TS-480. That is working great. This setup is a Kenwood TM-V71A. I see the configs are essentially the same for the two rigs, so essentially the only difference is the 3 UDP ports.
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Also, I don't know if this fact is helpful or not. When I try to connect over the www, the SIP lights come on on each RRC and the status pages show that they are connected and all is fine. However the radio does not turn on. Over the LAN, the radio turns on just fine. Here is one of the interesting facts over the www: once connected, I cannot stop the connection by pressing the power button. They just stay connected until I pull the power connection from the RRCs. Once the connection is initiated, the radio control panel is unresponsive.
My two radio RRCs are on one internet connection and the two control RRCs are on a separate internet connection via a cell phone hotspot. So an internet problem "should" affect them both.
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Ok. Here is an interesting development:
I can swap the radio out to a TS-480 and everything works fine on the LAN and on the www !!! Then I hook the TM-V71A back up to the RRCs and it won't work over the www, but it will on the LAN.
So, the problem ONLY occurs when I am trying to use the TM-V71A radio over the www. I can remote the TM-V71A over my LAN without issues.
Both RRCs that are in use now are Version 7, Firmware 2.91, Bootloader 1.10, and HW 8.
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This is really a very strange problem. By swapping them, you have proven that it must be an
issue somewhere in the router or network settings somewhere. I would have also suspected a
wiring problem, but it works within the LAN which means this is not the issue.
If I had a TM-V71A, I would try it out from here, but I don't. I am not sure what to do next,
except maybe a completely different number sequence, like 15000-15002 or similar.
I could take a look at both your settings and router if you want, but somehow I doubt that I will
find something.
Also make sure that SIP ALG is turned off in your router. I would assume that the TS-480 would also not
have worked with it on, but I have seen weirder things. SIP ALG turned on and even router firewalls have
caused these types of problems before. This goes for both sides, not only the radio.
Good luck and keep us informed. If you want me to look anyway, just let me know.
73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX
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I disagree. Please re-read my last post. I changed nothing in the RRCs or the router. Just swapping radios from the V71A to the 480 caused it to work. Swapping radios back caused it to not work. Looks like I might have stumbled onto a bug.
Thanks
Dale
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Then I misread what you wrote, however, I still not sure if I understand what you did. I assume
you mean that you kept the same port numbers, etc. when you did that swap between rigs?
Why don't you try my suggestion and swap RRC's? Then we can narrow down where the bug is.
We can then see if the problem is with the port number having a conflict, or something more
specific to the V71A.
73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX
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Perhaps I haven't properly explained what I did. I have narrowed the problem down to the V71A essentially.... or the interaction between it and the RRC(s). It will remote over my LAN so it seems like a bug somewhere in the interaction of the RRCs with the V71A (or that is at least how it appears to me). I can swap out either the control or the radio RRC and it makes no difference. The problem is not with any one RRC. If I unhook the V71A from any pair of RRCs and put a TS-480 in its place, there is then no problem whatsoever. The unit will remote fine over the internet. Then if I remove the TS-480 (from both ends) and put the V71A back, the problem returns. I guess my next step could be to round up another V71A to see if it does the same thing. But again, I come back to the fact that it works just fine over the LAN so that suggests that the problem is not within the radio itself.
Thanks
Dale
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To clarify further: when I swap radios I am not changing any router ports or anything in the RRCs. The only thing that changes is the radio and the cables to the RRCs. The V71A, cable, and RRC combination work fine on the LAN, just not on the internet.
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Ok, I think I got it now, but this just doesn't make any sense. If I can summarize:
- You verified that the ports work fine, since these same ports work for the TS-480 that didn't for the V71A
- Since the ports work fine, it is not a router problem
- You verified that it is not a specific RRC problem, swapping RRC's has the same problem with the V71A
- The V71A works fine within the LAN
- There is no error code, but no audio passes when outside of the LAN
This is very strange. There is no reason why changing the rig for another one would make
any difference, since you verified that it works in the LAN. The rig has no influence over the
way it works over the internet using a pair of RRC's.
I will have to sleep on this one, but there is no logical explanation for your problem. Maybe we need to
think out of the box on this. See if you can take your V71A control RRC to another location and use someone
else's internet to try to access it. Maybe the problem is in your control RRC's router, or the interface between
the rig to the control RRC and the router. At least that is the only thing left that hasn't been looked at (I think).
73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX
thing left I can think of that hasn't been
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Yes, we are on the same page now. Your summary of the situation is 100% correct. In addition to no audio passing on the V71A over the internet, the control head is not showing any sign of life either..... no backlight, no lcd digits, nothing. Yet, every once in a while (like 1 out of 50 tries) it will connect and work....but only that one time. Once you turn it off it won't turn back on again. The control RRC is working on the same internet connection (hotspot) that the 480 control head was on when I verified proper operation with the TS-480 so I doubt the problem is there.
I'm starting to wonder about the actual data that flows between the control head and the radio. Is it possible that the requirements are higher on the V71A than on the 480 ? Perhaps the internet connections are transferring sufficient data rates for the 480 but not quite enough for the V71A ? Or maybe something in the initial "handshake" is too slow for the V71A but sufficient for the 480? This could maybe explain why it works on the LAN but not over the internet.
I agree that trying the control head on another internet connection somewhere would be a good test. I will see if I can arrange that sometime tomorrow. I may also try another V71A just because. I have access to another one but the fact that it works on the LAN makes it seem unlikely that it has the issue.
There is a logical solution to this that is patiently waiting to be found.....
Thanks and 73
Dale
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No, the data rate of 57600 baud is identical to the TS-480 and should certainly be no more complex.
Certainly, 57.6k bps out of a modern broadband line is insignificant and any amount of overhead on
top would be in the couple k bps area and will have zero effect.
I will anxiously await the results of your test and dream about a solution tonight ;)
73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX
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Ok. Here is what I found.
I swapped out the V71A with another one and no difference. Then I drove into town and went to the library to use their wifi. Well, the unit works on their wifi !!!
So, the issue seems to be limited to the internet connection through the hotspot on my cell phone. But there still is the unanswered question of why won't it work on the hotspot with the V71A but it will with the TS-480. I can swap radios out at each end, and change nothing else. The RRCs are being used through their respective internet connections in exactly the same way for each radio. The TS-480 will remote just fine through the cell phone internet connection and the TM-V71A will not.
So, I am still leaning toward my thinking about the data requirements. It sure looks like the data transfer via the cell phone is sufficient for the 480 but not for the V71A.
73
Dale
VA6OK
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Somehow that is exactly what I expected to happen. I am not sure what the problem is
with that router, but that is where your problem lies.
The data requirements are 100% not the issue. Look at COM0's data rate of 57600 bps. That
is a small part of your available bandwidth, even on the uplink side.
What I suspect is the router's firewall sees something in the datastream it doesn't like and is
blocking it. See if a firewall in the router is turned on. If you can turn it off, that should solve the
problem. Also make sure that SIP ALG is deactivated.
73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX
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It's an iPhone hotspot..... what could there be to possibly configure in it? It's either on or off, they don't give you access to configurations in it. And however it is, it works with my other remoterigs which happen to be connected to TS-480s. The problem is specific to the iPhone and the V71A together. If either of them change, the problem goes away.
The 480 remotes just fine with the RRC connected to it, but not the V71A.
Are there others who have tried this? Have you tried to re-create this issue there or with someone else?
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I guess that Mike at Microbit will have to get back to you on this one. I am just a normal user and
have limited test ability, mainly TS-480 and K3.
Honestly, I believe that this problem is therefore caused by the iPhone. It is blocking packets it does
not like. The question is, why? Maybe you can Google to see if there are problems in general with the
iPhone hotspot blocking types of packets.
73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX
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I don't know anything about the packets that the RRC sends and receives over the internet. Would they be different for the V71A vs the 480? Or does the RRC convert the data into a standard string form that the RRCs recognize and therefore the strings should be similar no matter what type of radio is connected? That would be something that Microbit would know, not me.
I think I have gone as far as someone with a "customer" level of knowledge can go.
Certainly there is something about the iPhone hotspot that is contributing to the problem. I don't deny that. However, if I had decided to remote a TS-480 with this setup from the start, I would have never discovered this issue. It would have just worked with the iPhone, and I would be none the wiser. The TM-V71A is a LARGE part of the equation here. There is something specific to this radio that is not compatible with the RRC/iPhone combination.
Since I was initially on the wrong track when I started this post, I think I will start another one with what we now know and see if someone out there has ideas.
Again, I have gone as far with this as I can with the knowledge available to me.
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Thank you Mitch for your help in sorting through this. It will be neat to see if we ever truly get to the bottom of this.
Thanks again and 73
Dale
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Hi
I have not heard before that a hotspot works with one radio but not with an other. Not much to do about it. Having Apple or Kenwood to change something is like moving a mountain.
73 de mike
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One explanation could be that the Apple hotspot has longer connection time to the internet and the V71A panel is sensitive to timing issues during power on. If that is the case a solution might be using another portable hotspot using 4G LTE.
73, Palle, OZ1RH.
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Yes Palle, I think it may be something like that since the radio almost never will power up on the hotspot. On the rare occasions that it does actually power up, things actually work properly until you power it down.
Mike, has anyone else stumbled onto this issue?
73
Dale
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Dale
did you sort this in the end?
I have 2 vm-71 setups, one on lan, one remote overseas by internet, The remote has been up and down for years, more often down and we have never been able to finger it.
The lan systems great, never missed a beat in 5 years.
Everything connects, radio powers up, status perfect both ends, the small connect beep, command port data looks ok in debug, just the head fails to come up. Power down only possible by the remote status page.
Be good to work together on this one, not to many users with these radios.
Harry