Author Topic: RRC 1258 versus Yaesu Remote rig  (Read 6667 times)

Fred VE3PIE

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RRC 1258 versus Yaesu Remote rig
« on: 2013-07-19, 16:47:34 »
I have a yaesu FT 2000 and FTDX9000D. I want to use remote rig in the twin configuration (FT2000 at control site and FTDX9000 at the radio site)
I want to have as many virtual serial ports available as possible to run rotor and linear amp and antenna switches.
do I buy the RRC 1258 pair or the yaesu twin pair ? I thought someone told me the yaesu twin pair has 1 less serial port than the RRC1258 pair. I am not sure this is true. Can anyone tell me what to buy ?? I will need another piece of hardware for the other virtual serial ports.
Do I have 1 extra virtual serial port if I buy the remote rig pair ?
Do I buy the 1216H and 1216L ?
To get other serial ports do I buy LP-Remote ? or something else.
PLEASE HELP ANYONE TO DECIDE WHAT HARDWARE TO BUY ?
THANKS,FRED

dj0qn

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Re: RRC 1258 versus Yaesu Remote rig
« Reply #1 on: 2013-07-19, 18:19:08 »
There is no physical difference between any of the "pairs". The jumper configuration
and cables used are different.

However, any "Twin" setup (Yaesu or Elecraft) uses COM2 to connect the two RRC's,
so only COM1 is available on the RRC. Assuming you set this to pass CAT over from
COM2 to COM1 as usual, then there are no virtual serial ports available on a Twin setup.

You would therefore need another device to pass serial ports for using a rotor, amplifier,
etc. This can be a version of the Webswitch from Microbit, or any other serial server device,
such as from Lantronix or Moxa.

73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX

Fred VE3PIE

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Re: RRC 1258 versus Yaesu Remote rig
« Reply #2 on: 2013-07-19, 19:55:34 »
if I want an 8 port serial server is there one you would recommend from lantronix or Moxa ?
I am not familiar with these products
thanks, Fred

dj0qn

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Re: RRC 1258 versus Yaesu Remote rig
« Reply #3 on: 2013-07-19, 23:07:18 »
Hi Fred,

There are several on the market, just look at their web sites. It may be cheaper to buy
two 4 port serial servers than one eight port, especially since adapters for RJ45 are required
for the Lantronix 8 port servers (do you REALLY need 8 ports?). I bought a 4 port Lantronix
EDS4100 on Ebay for $190 on my last U.S. trip.

73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX



Fred VE3PIE

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Re: RRC 1258 versus Yaesu Remote rig
« Reply #4 on: 2013-07-20, 16:28:25 »
thanks for that information.
what I don't understand is the pricing - it makes it seem like the hardware is different.
on the webshop the prices are:
yaesu twin set (including all cables)  $ 726
1258MkIIs set $ 505 + yaseu mic cables $ 71 + Yaesu CAT cables $ 70 = $ 646
I think the only difference is a few audio cables and the jumpers in the twin set.
yet the yaesu set is $ 120 more. Am I missing something ?
thanks, Fred

dj0qn

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Re: RRC 1258 versus Yaesu Remote rig
« Reply #5 on: 2013-07-20, 19:28:46 »
This is a historical thing; indeed the Yaesu Twin used to have different firmware and
sold for much more, but the current version of the standard firmware now includes this
mode. Therefore, you no longer have to spend the premium to get a Yaesu Twin, but
can set the jumpers, etc. yourself and buy or make your own cables (full description
of all cables necessary is in the manual).

73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX

VE3ZI

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Re: RRC 1258 versus Yaesu Remote rig
« Reply #6 on: 2013-07-21, 04:13:22 »
Fred

Not sure whether  you want 8 serial ports as remote virtual ports on a PC or serial tunnelling between two 8 port devices.

If it is the former, I have several  Digi PortServer16 terminal servers which will provide 16 remote virtual serial ports and you are welcome to one gratis. It is not the newest device but works perfectly well. Unlike some other devices (including RemoteRig), it does not support serial tunnelling except in a very limited way.

73 Roger
VE3ZI

Fred VE3PIE

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Re: RRC 1258 versus Yaesu Remote rig
« Reply #7 on: 2013-07-23, 01:20:07 »
Hi Roger,
thanks for the offer. I think I may accept that offer.  what is the model number so I can look it up ?
Does it have 16 RS-232 output ports ?  I could use it for my main station.

For Roger and Mitch, and anyone else  - thanks for your help

I am a complete novice at setting up this remote setup.
I need to do it ASAP because I go to florida often where I stay at a condo. No antennas allowed, but I have a Yaesu FT-2000 there.  I love to have my hands on a radio, hence the yaesu twins idea.

For the remote control I would like to have a serial server on both ends so that no computers are required, especially as the radio site. I assume that is what is meant by the term "tunnelling"

To start, I thought I would buy the yaesu twins to allow my FT-2000 at the control site  "control" my FTDX-9000 at the radio site.  The CAT uses COM2.  I thought that COM1 was available as a “tunnelled “ serial port. I am not sure about this. Mitch I thought you said that COM1 was not available. Please clarify!

Next would be control of the alpha 9500 amplifier.  If  I had a tunnelled serial port I could use a PC at the control site with the alpha software.

Next comes the yaesu rotor, also requiring a tunnelled  RS-232 port. What software would I use?
I could use a logging program with rotor control built in, or would the 1216H work ? I think I have a idiompress interface hanging around the shack – or should I use the 1216L with the 1216H. I also don’t know the difference between the 1216H and the RC-1216H. Can you clarify ? With the 1216H is there software that has a display on the monitor to allow me to operate the relays ?

Or do I consider some lantronix or Moxa serial server ?
Can you comment on the LP-Remote ? would this be useful ? I like it because I can monitor the voltage on several power supplies, and can easily allow me to turn on and off relays.  How does the software at the control site (displayed on a PC) actually control the device? Is it thru a tunnelled serial port or thru IP address?

I would like a few extra serial ports available – for future expansion.

Finally I need some relays. I want to be able to control a 12 vdc supply, and control antenna relays to select one of 3 antennas. Will the 1216H do this? and does it have software to control all these relays ?
or should I look at something like LP-Remote ?

How do I tackle the coax relays -   not sure what to buy. I am told relays are expensive.
I thought of using an Ameritron RCS-4X or RCS-8V antenna switch. I could then wire up the relays across the terminals of the antenna switch, and in that way select which antenna I want. There must be an easier way.

Roger -  I think you know Don Dashney VE3RM ? when I was 15 years old in high school Don taught me in my ham radio class back in Montreal !

I would like to start ordering the equipment I need right away, so helping me figure the setup  and necessary equipment would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Fred   VE3PIE

VE3ZI

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Re: RRC 1258 versus Yaesu Remote rig
« Reply #8 on: 2013-07-23, 03:23:02 »
Hi Fred

The model is 'Digi PortServer 16 RJ45 Domestic, Part No 1P 50000260'. However, the part number is not terribly useful - Digi seems to have multiple numbering systems. You can find it on their website under legacy systems.

If you let me have your email address I can send you a copy of the manual (9028700c.pdf ) and the wiring cable guide (90000253_d.pdf). I also have the drivers for Windows (up to XP only I think) and Linux (up to Kernel 2.6). At one point I had 2 ports controlled by a Windows machine, another 2 by a Linux machine and another 2 tunnelling between two devices. So it is quite flexible, although not very user friendly... Tunnelling is not officially supported, but does work in a limited way . (Tunnelling is where you have one serial device and it is connected to another serial device at a remote site - just like a very long serial cable.)  The PortServer is really intended so that a PC can have lots (up to hundreds ) of remote serial ports, and yes the ports are RS232 although they use 10 way RJ45 connectors - the pin-out is cunningly arranged so that if you only want RXD and TXD you only need a 4 way connector and so on. The device needs 5V and +/-12V - sorry I don't have a spare psu.

The Remote Rig does support serial tunnelling on its 2 ports and that is probably enough. The PortServer could be used for your amplifier and rotor control (logging program with rotor control built in). I strongly agree with your wish to not have a computer at the remote end. In my case the remote station is a km from the nearest road, and as you know it snows quite a lot up here....

I will coming to Toronto on Wednesday with the XYL, staying overnight down-town, so I could possibly bring it then as I see you are in Markham. Yes, I do know Don VE3RM, nice guy.

73 Roger
VE3ZI



dj0qn

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Re: RRC 1258 versus Yaesu Remote rig
« Reply #9 on: 2013-07-23, 13:42:34 »
Hi Fred,

Those are a LOT of questions, I am in a bit of a hurry, so I will touch upon some of them:

- COM1 on RRC: see my answer before. It is only available for "tunneling" if you do NOT use CAT,
which is unlikely. Therefore, COM1 in a Twin configuration is blocked by CAT and is therefore
unavailable for controlling other devices. This is an exception relevant ONLY to Twin configurations!
Roger's comment is applicable to a non-Twin RRC setup, and then only if you don't run CAT at all
(in that case, you would have both serial ports available).

- I think Roger's offer was for tunneling PC serial ports, which is NOT what you want. You need a
serial server device, such as from Lantronix, Moxa, etc. On the control side, NO device is needed,
you just install virtual serial port drivers and your local PC "thinks" it has those remote serial ports
locally. Which brand you want is not important, just make sure that it supports "real serial mode"
and is not a "lite" version (some Moxas are that type).

- For antenna switching, look at the Microbit antenna switch. It integrates in the RemoteRig system
and is not that expensive. http://www.remoterig.com/wp/?page_id=1793

- For relays, there are lots of variations on the market and this would entail a longer discussion.
Certainly the Webswitch does a fine job here and is not expensive. The N8LP system is impressive,
but quite complex and maybe overkill. Larry uses Lantronix serial servers in his configuration (look
at his web site).

- Rotor software: any software will work. It just thinks the serial port is local, even if it is a virtual
remoted port. Same goes for any other serial control software (e.g. amplifier, wattmeter, etc.).

- If you have any further questions, you are welcome to write me directly at dj0qn (at) darc.de.
I will be on the road again the next few days, so I am not sure how often I can post here.

73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX

VE3ZI

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Re: RRC 1258 versus Yaesu Remote rig
« Reply #10 on: 2013-07-23, 19:42:25 »
Just one comment on Mitch's last post.

The Digi PortServer 16 is NOT a tunnelling device - it is a serial server exactly as described by Mitch.

 (I probably confused matters by saying that it is possible to get limited tunnelling, but that is not specified by the manufacturer.)

73 Roger
VE3ZI

dj0qn

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Re: RRC 1258 versus Yaesu Remote rig
« Reply #11 on: 2013-07-23, 19:52:02 »
Sorry, Roger, then I misunderstood your post. I guess that is what I get for
being in a hurry.

I am not sure why anyone would need 16 virtual serial ports, but the more the
merrier!  ;)

73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX

Fred VE3PIE

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Re: RRC 1258 versus Yaesu Remote rig
« Reply #12 on: 2013-07-26, 10:39:15 »
Hi Roger,
Sorry I could not get back to you earlier. Had hernia surgery - all ok now.
Thanks for the offer, but I will like look for one of the lantronix devices.

Hi Mitch,
I am going to go with the remote rig yaesu twins. One question about RTTY. When I am running remotely I believe I can use MMTTY.  Do I connect the PC to COM1 even though COM 1 and 2 are used for the twin configuration (page 134 of the manual) ? 

I will use the antenna switch 1269. Do you know if the antenna switch has a default setting- is the switch set to antenna 1 if the device is not turned on ? or are all the antennas grounded when not turned on ?

To control the rotator and the linear amplifier I will look for a lantronix EDS 4100 or Moxa NPort 5410 serial server.
Is one brand better than the other ?

Finally I need your advice on some relay switches to turn on the 120vac for the yaesu rotor, 120vac for a ventilation fan, 120vac power supply for the antenna switch, I may need one for the linear amp, and possibly a supply voltage for the LP-Remote if I use this device.

choice 1: webswitch 1216H - I believe this has only 5 switches. Using this device my requirements just about use all the relays. I could put a few devices on one relay to leave some relays available for other things, but would rather have them individually controlled.

choice 2: remote webswitch for 117 vac powered devices, such as the Ambery IP-P3 remote power switch, which can control 4 devices.
   To control this device I need 1 serial port.         http://www.ambery.com/prreposwphco.html 

choice 3: LP-Remote    This has as many relays as I will ever need. If I need a 12 volt supply I can monitor the voltage-which is a nice bell & whistle, and has macros. I like the idea of expandibility and the voltage monitoring.

I think that about covers it. Did I forget anything ?
thanks for your help
Fred

Fred VE3PIE

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Re: RRC 1258 versus Yaesu Remote rig
« Reply #13 on: 2013-07-26, 10:46:11 »
Hi Mitch,

You said the Microbit antenna switch integrates in the RemoteRig system. I thought I control it by an enternet explorer window opened up the IP address of the remote switch, and then select from one of the 10 antennas by clicking on the correct number. Is there anything more that I am not aware of ?
thanks, Fred

dj0qn

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Re: RRC 1258 versus Yaesu Remote rig
« Reply #14 on: 2013-07-26, 16:15:51 »
You said the Microbit antenna switch integrates in the RemoteRig system. I thought I control it by an enternet explorer window opened up the IP address of the remote switch, and then select from one of the 10 antennas by clicking on the correct number. Is there anything more that I am not aware of ?

You have two possibilities: either control it manually as you stated, or automatically by assigning an antenna to a specific frequency range. The remote switch gets the CAT data to do this from the radio RRC through the local network. This is a good solution if you have one antenna for a specific frequency segment. If you need use more than one antenna per segment, then you would need to use the manual method, or another product. Just FYI, I personally use antenna switches in amplifiers in my setups, either the SPE Expert, or the Acom 2000a with Acom switch.

I am going to go with the remote rig yaesu twins. One question about RTTY. When I am running remotely I believe I can use MMTTY.  Do I connect the PC to COM1 even though COM 1 and 2 are used for the twin configuration (page 134 of the manual) ? 

In any of the Twin configurations, COM2 is "blocked" to tie the two rigs together. You must use COM1 to access CAT in this case by using a mode that routes CAT to COM1 parallel to COM2. How you use this (logging control, etc.) is up to you. I am not sure what exactly you want to do with MMTTY, but obviously you would need to put audio in and out locally on the control RRC side. Exception is FSK, where there is a special USB virtual port available on the control side for sending only. I do not personally use any digital modes, so I don't know the software at all, but have tested the technology to make sure it worked on occasion.

I will use the antenna switch 1269. Do you know if the antenna switch has a default setting- is the switch set to antenna 1 if the device is not turned on ? or are all the antennas grounded when not turned on ?

You can set it to put the input to ground when not in use. I suggest you take a look at the manual at http://www.remoterig.com/wp/?page_id=97 for details (this would have also answered the first question above).

To control the rotator and the linear amplifier I will look for a lantronix EDS 4100 or Moxa NPort 5410 serial server.
Is one brand better than the other ?

Some people swear by one and some by the other. The Lantronix can be tricky to get working, but is very powerful. I understand the Moxa is easier to install. Just be careful not to buy the Moxa "lite" without a real serial mode.

Finally I need your advice on some relay switches to turn on the 120vac for the yaesu rotor, 120vac for a ventilation fan, 120vac power supply for the antenna switch, I may need one for the linear amp, and possibly a supply voltage for the LP-Remote if I use this device.

choice 1: webswitch 1216H - I believe this has only 5 switches. Using this device my requirements just about use all the relays. I could put a few devices on one relay to leave some relays available for other things, but would rather have them individually controlled.

choice 2: remote webswitch for 117 vac powered devices, such as the Ambery IP-P3 remote power switch, which can control 4 devices.
   To control this device I need 1 serial port.         http://www.ambery.com/prreposwphco.html 

choice 3: LP-Remote    This has as many relays as I will ever need. If I need a 12 volt supply I can monitor the voltage-which is a nice bell & whistle, and has macros. I like the idea of expandibility and the voltage monitoring.

I really can't answer this, you need to decide what makes most sense for you. Note that the RRC also has some relays that you may be able to use, and that the Webswitch can be cascaded to allow another 5 relays. I personally use a combination of the Webswitch, RRC and an IP power strips in my installations. The power strips are so cheap and easy to use, that I use these where they make sense, but they are generally limited to 8 amps at 220 volts. For the amplifiers, etc. you will need sometime more flexible like the Webswitch. I even raise and lower towers with the Webswitch.

I think that about covers it. Did I forget anything ?

Probably ;)  But then there is always e-mail.

73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX
« Last Edit: 2013-07-26, 16:24:48 by dj0qn »