Author Topic: Remote Rig Winkeyer and N1MMPlus  (Read 19822 times)

W3IP

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Remote Rig Winkeyer and N1MMPlus
« on: 2015-01-02, 16:48:49 »
I am experiencing a problem when using the Remote Rig Winkeyer with
N1MMPlus. N1MM hangs after sending CW characters to the Winkeyer to
transmit using the function keys. After posing this problem to the N1MM forum, I was told that
N1MM expects to see status bytes from the Winkeyer ( one saying that
sending CW has started, and another when sending is complete) before it
will issue another CW message. Using a USB monitor program, I can see the
setup sent from N1MM to the Winkeyer (0A 16 00 16 02 00 1C 16), then I see
the characters to be transmitted and the character echos back from the Winkeyer.
I see neither status byte from the Winkeyer to N1MM on the USB monitor. If I
read the Winkeyer manual correctly, the start of transmit status byte would be
C4, the end of transmission status byte would then be C0).

Is there some setup function I am missing? The rest of the interface
between N1MM, the K3/0, the Remote Rig and the K3 is working well.

Using WinXP, Remote Rig Version 5, HW 6, Software 2.81, K3/0,
K3 (with most recent updates).

Thanks

73, Mike, W3IP

W3IP

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Re: Remote Rig Winkeyer and N1MMPlus
« Reply #1 on: 2015-01-08, 04:32:48 »
Has anyone had success or failure with N1MMPlus and the RRC1258 Twins using the
CW message function keys in N1MMPlus? As configured, the first time I click on
a function key, the characters are transmitted, the red "LED light" on the N1MM
entry panel turns orange and stays that way. Subsequent clicks on the CW message
buttons do nothing.

Any secret to getting this to work?

Thanks

73, Mike, W3IP

W1UE

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Re: Remote Rig Winkeyer and N1MMPlus
« Reply #2 on: 2015-01-10, 02:27:00 »
Mike-  I have had this happen to me several times in different configurations.  It sounds like a conflict among virtual serial port programs.  Do you have any other programs on your computer that create virtual serial ports?  Some programs to check for are the Microham virtual serial port creator,  Microbit, VSPR, N8VB, com0com, or even a USB to serial converter.  What happens is that the methods that the different programs use to create the virtual comports are not compatible; the communication from N1MM goes out to the Winkey, but the end info doesn't come back.  Another way to test if that is the problem is to hit the ESC key when it doesn't release the PTT (sometimes you have to hit it twice)- if that then restores the function keys, it is most likely a virtual serial port problem issue.

The solution: eliminate all the virtual serial port creators with the exception of the one you want to use (Microbit).  It often isn't enough to not use the program; you often have to uninstall it from the computer.  If that solves your problem, then you'll know that's the problem.

I spent several hours today trying to get the Winkeyer emulation in the RCC to work with no luck.  I couldn't get the Winkey emulation to be saved; I could change it, but when I went to Apply it the Com2 always came back as "parallel to Com0".  I could get it to save as Com1, but then I couldn't get radio control for N1MM.  I finally had to resort to an outboard USB winkey.  BTW, setup here is a K3 Mini 0 Control Unit to a Remote K3. 

Dennis W1UE

W3IP

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Re: Remote Rig Winkeyer and N1MMPlus
« Reply #3 on: 2015-01-10, 04:31:56 »
Dennis

After my initial attempts to get N1MMPlus and Remoterig CW messaging to work together failed, I completely
uninstalled the other virtual serial port drivers that were loaded on my computer, removed the
one USB to serial adapter, and also ran the Microbit device driver remover program that Jan
from Microbit published on this forum back in June. The Windows device manager confirmed that
all the virtual device drivers and the USB to serial adapter were gone. I then did a clean install
of the software (version 2.83). The four Microbit USB ports and drivers showed up (now with lower Com port numbers) as advertised in device manager. There are no other ports visible in device manager. The problem between N1MMPlus and the RRC1258 remains unchanged as stated.

To recap my observations:
1. With the K3, RRC1258 and N1MMPlus otherwise properly configured and in CW mode, I can click on any
CW function message key in N1MMPlus and observe one CW message transmitted, the red "LED" on the N1MMPlus entry window turns orange and does NOT return to red when the CW message transmission is complete.
2. Hitting the escape key on the keyboard does NOT reset N1MMPlus to send more CW messages.
3. Clicking on "Esc:Stop" on the N1MMPlus entry window does NOT reset N1MMPlus to send more CW messages.
4. Hitting "Cntl T" twice while focused on N1MMPlus (i.e. toggle tune twice) DOES reset N1MMPlus to send
one more CW message then hang again. (I believe this is the equivalent of a manual PTT in N1MMPlus and
resets the software, but is not a usable solution in a contest scenario).

I would like to hear from Microbit whether or not they are following the Winkey protocol regarding status
bytes and whether or not their latest device drivers can handle the extended ASCII characters. I have
heard that some recent versions of some virtual port drivers do not handle extended ASCII. Those answers
would go a long way towards isolating where to look for the problem.

Can you (or anyone else) think of anything else to look for? Has anyone gotten these CW function keys in N1MMPlus to work with the RRC1258?

Thanks

73, Mike, W3IP

Jan (Microbit)

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Re: Remote Rig Winkeyer and N1MMPlus
« Reply #4 on: 2015-01-10, 06:58:28 »
I spent several hours today trying to get the Winkeyer emulation in the RCC to work with no luck.  I couldn't get the Winkey emulation to be saved; I could change it, but when I went to Apply it the Com2 always came back as "parallel to Com0".  I could get it to save as Com1, but then I couldn't get radio control for N1MM.  I finally had to resort to an outboard USB winkey.  BTW, setup here is a K3 Mini 0 Control Unit to a Remote K3. 
Dennis W1UE
When settings "revert" that way it is most likely due to the new value being incompatible with other settings and so the  RRC will not allow the change to take effect. In an ideal world the RRC would somehow tell about why it does that, but since resources are small such a feature is yet to be implemented.
Always include type of hard/software and version when asking for support.

Jan (Microbit)

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Re: Remote Rig Winkeyer and N1MMPlus
« Reply #5 on: 2015-01-10, 07:07:47 »
I would like to hear from Microbit whether or not they are following the Winkey protocol regarding status
bytes and whether or not their latest device drivers can handle the extended ASCII characters. I have
heard that some recent versions of some virtual port drivers do not handle extended ASCII. Those answers
would go a long way towards isolating where to look for the problem.
I was about to ask you to try RRC v2.83 since it contains a fix regarding USB Com ports, which depending on the mode used could have been the reason. But since you have upgraded and still have problems it was not the case.

The drivers used for the RRC's USB serial ports are from Microsoft. We only provide INF files which describes the ports so that Windows can locate and use those drivers. There is no problem with extended ASCII since the valid range of data for each byte is 0-255.

As for the Winkey protocol and testing this ourselves that will be next week, unless Mike(@RemoteRig) knows something about it.
« Last Edit: 2015-01-21, 11:19:42 by Jan (Microbit) »
Always include type of hard/software and version when asking for support.

K3TN

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Re: Remote Rig Winkeyer and N1MMPlus
« Reply #6 on: 2015-01-10, 15:20:48 »
I've duplicated Mike's problem with my Remote Rig setup - with N1MM+, the function keys won't send CW.

With old N1MM (called Classic), it works fine. N2IC on the N1MM team seems to say that N1MM+ is looking for status byte return, that doesn't seem to happen in RemoteRig WinKey emulation, maybe?

So, for Microbit testing - use N1MM+ to see problem.

John K3TN

sm2o

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Re: Remote Rig Winkeyer and N1MMPlus
« Reply #7 on: 2015-01-12, 14:16:30 »
Hi
We will take a look at it as soon as we get time for it.

73 de mike

EI3KD

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Re: Remote Rig Winkeyer and N1MMPlus
« Reply #8 on: 2015-01-13, 06:53:07 »
I have the same problem with N1MM+

Having looked at the serial data flow, perhaps the remoterig winkey implementation is not quite complete...

A standard K1EL winkeyer2 sends an "Unsolicited Status Transmission" (UST) containing the status byte, whenever the winkey status changes: This includes information such as whether the keyer is currently busy sending Morse, paddle break-in is active, etc. It seems like the remoterig implementation doesn't send this status update - the only UST it sends is to do with speed control.

I think N1MM+ uses the UST status update (in WK1 compatible mode?) as a form of "software flow control" and consequently doesn't work properly when it's not being sent.

I hope this helps - the required fix is probably in remoterig's implementation rather than N1MM+

Regards, Mark

Jan (Microbit)

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Re: Remote Rig Winkeyer and N1MMPlus
« Reply #9 on: 2015-01-20, 15:39:52 »
Thanks for your information and help regarding the issues with N1MM+ and RemoteRig.

The UST byte seems to be what was missing in order to satisfy N1MM+. There is a new version available here:

www.remoterig.com/firmwares/RRC1258-CRC-v2.84_2015-01-20.zip

for you to try and see if it works ok  8)
« Last Edit: 2015-01-21, 11:17:58 by Jan (Microbit) »
Always include type of hard/software and version when asking for support.

EI3KD

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Re: Remote Rig Winkeyer and N1MMPlus
« Reply #10 on: 2015-01-20, 17:48:12 »
Thanks Jan,

that works fine for me with N1MM+, tested today with version 1.0.4584. I've also checked it still works with the latest versions of  WinTest, cwType and DxLog.

Great job!

Mark

W3IP

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Re: Remote Rig Winkeyer and N1MMPlus
« Reply #11 on: 2015-01-21, 05:40:00 »
Works well here also. Thanks for the great support!

73, Mike, W3IP

Jan (Microbit)

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Re: Remote Rig Winkeyer and N1MMPlus
« Reply #12 on: 2015-01-21, 11:20:35 »
Excellent! And thanks again!  ;D
Always include type of hard/software and version when asking for support.

K3TN

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Re: Remote Rig Winkeyer and N1MMPlus
« Reply #13 on: 2015-01-21, 11:42:54 »
Thanks! Will load here today.

73 John K3TN

OH2FT

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Re: Remote Rig Winkeyer and N1MMPlus
« Reply #14 on: 2015-01-21, 13:17:38 »
Any "KISS" type configuring instructions how to use
USB to RRC Control, to run wintest with winkey emulation
and PTT over it, and use the internal RRC keyer in parallel with paddle ?

An other PC uses both RS232 ports of RRC to control K3 and a microham stack switch.

Joni OH2FT
(yes, winkey was invented after I left school...)