Author Topic: SO2R & RemoteRig  (Read 6105 times)

yo3irm

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
    • View Profile
SO2R & RemoteRig
« on: 2016-04-15, 19:23:50 »
Hi,

I have a TS-480SAT connected to RemoteRig, all working very good.
Having a spare Kenwood TS-870 I would like to explore SO2R.
I do understand the concept but all it seems more complicated due to remote configuration.
Is someone willing to share from his experience?
I'm thinking at MicroHam micro2R, eventually selling TS-870 for another TS-480SAT.
Is it possible to connect MicroHam micro2R on the RRC control side?

Thank you for any suggestion!

73, Dan

dj0qn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2150
    • View Profile
    • DJ0QN / K7DX
    • Email
Re: SO2R & RemoteRig
« Reply #1 on: 2016-04-15, 19:27:44 »
Dan,

I gave-up trying to use a the Micro2R for remote, due to limitations it has with power on, push buttons to switch, etc.

The TS-870 will require a computer interface, which is not really easy for SO2R with the TS-480 control panel. You may
wish to use two TS-480's as well. I know someone that does this and is quite happy. Even better are two K3's with
two K3/0's on the control side, but that would probably be too expensive for you.

73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX

yo3irm

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
    • View Profile
Re: SO2R & RemoteRig
« Reply #2 on: 2016-04-15, 20:47:50 »
Thank you Mitch for your suggestion. I don't have any experience with microHam micro2R, from what I've read I understand it is capable to automate SO2R environment if I use it with N1MM or WinTest.
As you said, I'm also thinking to buy another TS-480SAT to have identical radios, K3/0 would be nice but it is to expensive, at least for this moment.
Anyway I'm sure will take some investment to build a SO2R environment.
I've started to participate on CW contests using some contest software as SO1R and now as SO2V but it is frustrating that I cannot hear both VFOs on the same time.
Perhaps at this moment, a radio with a second receiver will do a real SO2V with my existing configuration but I want to move to SO2R.
At a first view, micro2r with microphone & key input for each radio could be connected to Controller RRCs, looks simple :) but I know is not like that :)
I would appreciate any drawings or info, I'm open to any other suggestions.
I've seen some SO2R demos with Anan and SunSDR2Pro, very nice, but I don't know if SDR solutions can be integrated in a remote environment.

Thank you!

73, Dan

dj0qn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2150
    • View Profile
    • DJ0QN / K7DX
    • Email
Re: SO2R & RemoteRig
« Reply #3 on: 2016-04-16, 05:07:01 »
Hi Dan,

I am sure there are some solutions for SO2R remote and can ask around, but the Micro2R is useless for
that purpose. What I tried to explain is that it requires you to be at the box to control it and can not
be used remotely. If the power is turned off, it can only be turned on by its power button. For a number of
other functions, you need to push buttons locally. It just was not designed with remote in mind.

73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX

OH2FT

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 33
    • View Profile
Re: SO2R & RemoteRig
« Reply #4 on: 2016-04-16, 07:39:25 »
I have similar problems. I'm replacing microham's old band decoders with SMD:s, and thats doable, however the mkr2+ that I also bought is not really for remote use. The idea was to have a similar setup for both so2r local and remote use, as with normal one radio remote use. I also have an old SCKII so2r box. Maybe the best way is to use two sets of RRCs and have the so2r box at control end, and then BD/SM/SMDs at radio side. if you have a pc at radio site, you might have other otions too. By the way, Microham's SM0RF remote power meter with ethernet interface works nicely over mobile 4G...

Joni OH2FT

yo3irm

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
    • View Profile
Re: SO2R & RemoteRig
« Reply #5 on: 2016-04-16, 09:21:42 »
What I'm thinking is to use two RRC pairs, one for each TS-480 radio, basically this will extend Mic, CWkey, CAT over internet and from what I've read, micro 2R need only these inputs from Radio. This way microham micro2R will be located at Control site.
This is the basic diagram from microham site where I've added the red arrows for RRC locations with u2r located at Control site


And this is the diagram for the cables that need to be connected on microham micro2R. With the exception of PTT, all others can be connected to RRC Control.
Related to PTT connection it is mentioned that:
"Connect cables from PTTIN1 to the PTT out of RADIO1
IMPORTANT: This connection is required for proper audio switching in VOX operation
"


with the pin connections for TS-480


I see that for remote site, I need to mirror CAT for Station Master. I understand this is possible in RRC using COM1
Theoretically it doesn't look complicated but I know that from theory to practice is a long way :) so any thoughts or suggestions will be appreciated.

Thank you!

73, Dan


« Last Edit: 2016-04-16, 09:29:28 by yo3irm »

OH2FT

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 33
    • View Profile
Re: SO2R & RemoteRig
« Reply #6 on: 2016-04-16, 10:44:18 »
I think it would work. Both SMs would be connected to each RRC(radio com1) for CAT replication.
RRC com0/2 would be connected to K3 cat. No USB connections to SM. Any SO2R-box would work at control side, u2r, mkr2 or any legacy so2r box.
However, I haven't tested it. Maybe some others have, would be nice to know.

The only inconvenience would be, that if you intended to do so2r at radiosite, you need to cable everything again. Unless you carry the control side RRC with you, an run it over local lan.

Joni

dj0qn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2150
    • View Profile
    • DJ0QN / K7DX
    • Email
Re: SO2R & RemoteRig
« Reply #7 on: 2016-04-17, 22:16:07 »
I received the following input from Martin, DL4NAC:

"From 2014 to 2015 I operated SO2R Remote using the following setup successfully:

WinTest in Advanced SO2R mode with some programmed scenarios. On LPT I used the Radio A/B Switching from WinTest to switch my homemade SO2R Box. This box uses a bunch of relays to switch PTT, Mic and CW between Radio A and B. Additionally I used an audio mixer to be a little bit more flexible on the audio. From this box PTT and Mic went into Mic/Aux of RRC A and RRC B, CW went into IO of RRC A and RRC B. I am no friend of USB

I now dismantled this setup to do some changes. At the contest station I use a MK2R+ with two TS850 and I plan to use this one at home for remote in the future.

73 Martin, dl4nac"

73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX

dl6kac

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: SO2R & RemoteRig
« Reply #8 on: 2016-04-18, 21:09:31 »
Hi guys,

I use the following setup.



Hope this helps and the schematics is understandable. It really doesn't matter which type of TRX you are using. If you can operate it remotely it'll work. Preferably some "native" remote TRX like TS-480, K3 etc.

I can't confirm the USB issues mentioned by Martin, DL4NAC. So far CW keying has been reliable. Voice keyer operation also works very nicely.

73
Christian, DL6KAC

EDIT: Image-URL was broken. Hope it works now.



« Last Edit: 2016-04-18, 21:57:29 by dl6kac »

yo3irm

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
    • View Profile
Re: SO2R & RemoteRig
« Reply #9 on: 2016-04-19, 18:40:34 »
Thank you for all info, it gives me some hope :)
See bellow the microHam support reply:
Quote
As the diagram you attached shows, Station Master requires access
to the transceiver CAT Port for band decoding.  You will need to
run the RRC CAT signal *through* Station Master

micro2R, on the other hand, has nothing to do with CAT - you can
run headphones, PTT, mic, keyer output and FSK to each RRC box
as if they were the transceivers.  The only issue - micro2R needs
a PTT signal *from* the rig (particularly with VOX in SSB) in order
to do things like switch headphones to the non-transmitting rig.
There may be some issues there unless the RRC box provides a TX
tally.

Christian, I see you are using a TS-480, do you have a drawing of the cable between RRC Control and u2r ?
I see in the u2R documentation a separate cable just for PTT as you see it in this thread.
As of now, I'm using the RRC winkey emulator, but if I want to use u2R I understand that I should use the u2R winkeyer, how do you setup/cable this ?

Thank you!

73, Dan

dl6kac

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: SO2R & RemoteRig
« Reply #10 on: 2016-04-19, 19:58:55 »
Hi Dan,

Sorry, I don't have a drawing of the cable. Just the basic version which is shown above.

You need a cable for each radio. On one side (u2R) you have a DB-9 connector. On the other side you have different connectors. It basically a 3 to 1 cable as the DB-9 cable is joined with three different cables.
  • Ethernet-cable (RJ-45) => RRC I/O port as per RemoteRig manual for CW
  • Ethernet cable (RJ-45) => RRC AUX/MIC port as per RemoteRIG manual for MIC and PTT
  • Stereo headphone jack => Headphone port of TRX for received audio
Unfortunately I can't show you a foto as everything is wired and I don't want to rip it apart.

The RRC does not supply a "PTT-out". But if you are using the microham SO2R protocoll, TRX switching will be done by the controller respectively the logging software.

The setup has only tested with CW and SSB. I didn't bother about RTTY. Theoretically it should also be possible to get this running as well.

I am using the u2R Winkey-Port. The RRC is connected by the 3 to 1 cable mentioned above. CW is keyed by the u2R (with proper sequencing) via RRC I/O port.

73
Christian


yo3irm

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
    • View Profile
Re: SO2R & RemoteRig
« Reply #11 on: 2016-04-20, 20:49:30 »
Christian, thanks for the details info, I've read again the RRC documentation and now I understand the IO port functionality :)
So, as you said, I will need a custom cable from each RRC to u2R
DB9 on u2R side and
- RJ45 to RRC Control I/O port, pin 4 & 8 (for u2R WinKey CW, simulate a Straight key)
- RJ45 to RRC Control Aux/Mic for Mic and PTT
- 3.5 Stereo jack to RRC Control SP or TS-480 Head headphone connector
--------------
- at RRC Control box -> IO Settings, select IN0 mode: Keyer 
- at RRC Rdio box -> OUT0,OUT1,OUT2 select mode: Keyer
- N1MM+/Win-Test -> configured to use u2R WinKey COM port for CW

Now, as per microHam cable drawing, there are another connection (PTTIN) to PTT. I've asked again microHam support about this connection and they insist that connection should exist, in my case TS-480, this is from Remote port, pin 2 & 4, here usually you connect an amplifier, as per TS-480 manual:
Quote
Connect an external transmission power amplifier to the REMOTE connector (1 male, 8-pin mini DIN connector (E57-0405-XX) is supplied). Switch ON the linear amplifier control relay via Menu Nos. 28 (HF) and 29 (50 MHz). Select 2 or 3 if you use the internal relay to control the linear amplifier status. The TX/ RX relay response time is 10 ms when you have selected CW Full Break-in and 25 ms when you have selected CW Semi Break-in

The TX/ RX control method differs, depending on external amplifier models. Some amplifiers enter the TX mode when the control terminal is grounded. For those amplifiers, connect pin 2 of the REMOTE connector to the GND terminal of the amplifier and connect pin 4 of the connector to the control terminal of the amplifier

And here is the latest response from microHam support:

Quote
PTT *out* (also know as amplifier PTT) from the TS-480 is
pin 4 (MKE) on the TS-480 REMOTE jack with pin 2 (COM)
grounded.  That needs to be connected to PTT IN of micro2R
in order for micro2R to perform "latch" switching of
headphone audio (switch to non transmitting radio) in
SO2R mode.

I don't think RRC Control provide an output connector with PTT info, I think it could be possible to use the I/O port on RRC Radio to transport the signal from TS-480 Remote port (pin 2 & 4) to the RRC Control  I/O port and then to the u2R but that will complicate things even more.
As I understand you are running u2R without this PTT cable connected and it is working, correct ?
I'm using 99% CW, PTT activated by VOX on Radio not by RRC keyer.

Thank you!

73, Dan


dl6kac

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: SO2R & RemoteRig
« Reply #12 on: 2016-04-24, 12:03:18 »
Hi Dan,

yes, the the PTT IN signal could probably be transported via the I/O port. However, if I understand correctly some lines are already occupied. Additionally you would need some sort of PTT matrix as the amp also needs keying.

I didn't look into this.

73
Christian

PS: I also answered your email - get back to ASAP.