Author Topic: Remote via wireless bridge to apartment roof.  (Read 346 times)

VE7VR

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Remote via wireless bridge to apartment roof.
« on: 2018-12-28, 22:37:40 »
I live in a high rise building.

Radio is a TS-480HX

I am attempting to use remote rig to connect from my apartment on the 14th floor with the roof on the 25th floor. The connection needs to be via wireless WiFi rather than the internet since I only have power available on the roof....no internet.

I currently have both ends in the apartment and will get that working before moving them apart.

I have the radio-end router (Linksys WRT3200) in wireless bridge mode and the RC1216 (SteppIR control) and RRC1258 are plugged into LAN jacks on the router. Good news...it works. I can turn things on and change the SteppIR. I can hear audio and change frequency and transmit seems to work but with some delay. However, there is quite a delay when changing frequency. If I move the knob very slowly it is OK. When I rotate more quickly the frequency may not update for 1 or 2 seconds. While moving the frequency the audio is also interrupted.

There are also random voids in the audio on receive which are milliseconds long and occur every few seconds. Sometimes more frequent, sometimes longer intervals.

I don't think I can change any settings on the WiFi equipment or can I? Anything on the remote boxes I can try? Buffer/Jitter etc.

I tried disconnecting other WiFi equipment on the same network with minimal change.

My next option will be to change out my existing 2.4G router (Linksys WRT54GL)  and add a dual band router and move the wireless bridge (already dual band) to the 5G channel which will be exclusive of other connections.

Once this setup is solid I will need to work on external antennas for each router so they can "see" each other.

Thanks for any advice.

73, Dave VE7VR

dj0qn

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Re: Remote via wireless bridge to apartment roof.
« Reply #1 on: 2018-12-29, 03:57:30 »
Hi Dave,

It is for sure a network problem. One you setup the 5 GHz dedicated network for the connection,
I am sure that it will solve your problem. You may wish to look at some other wireless bridges
designed for that sort of thing: I recommend products from Ubiquiti and something like a
Nanostation would work really great and is not expensive https://www.ubnt.com/airmax/nanostation-ac/

You can compensate for latency issues by changing those settings. I run them at 12 & 10 in
between the U.S. and Europe. However, latency is not your problem and it should not be necessary
to change these settings in your case.

73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX

VE7VR

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Re: Remote via wireless bridge to apartment roof.
« Reply #2 on: 2018-12-29, 17:16:32 »
Thanks very much Mitch. I see in small print on the modem setup page that 2.4ghz is not recommended for wireless bridging. I will update my primary router to dual band and post an update here once that is installed. Thanks for the tip on hardware.

73, Dave VE7VR

VE7VR

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Re: Remote via wireless bridge to apartment roof.
« Reply #3 on: 2019-01-03, 17:50:05 »
Update: I replaced my old Linksys primary router with the same dual band version I am using at the radio end - Linksys WRT3200AC. The wireless bridge was then set up on the 5GHZ band. All the latency issues went away and the setup works just like it did when connected via the internet. Now the challenge is to get the two routers separated by more than 6 feet. I will try just using external antennas at each end but suspect I may have to have a PoE range extender at the primary router side. We shall see. The roof-top router will require about 50 feet of coax to get an external antenna to "see" over the edge of the building. The antennas will then be about 120 feet apart.

More to come.

Dave VE7VR

dj0qn

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Re: Remote via wireless bridge to apartment roof.
« Reply #4 on: 2019-01-03, 20:19:02 »
Glad to hear it, Dave.

Like I suggested before, take a look at the Ubiquity equipment, since they were designed for
this sort of thing. I use Bullets, but something like the Nanostation will work for you just fine.

These use PoE, so you only need to run a cheap ethernet cable to the roof edge.

73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX

VE7VR

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Re: Remote via wireless bridge to apartment roof.
« Reply #5 on: 2019-01-03, 20:59:04 »
Thanks Mitch

From what I have read, you can really only use a WiFi extender at one end...is that right? Trying to communicate extender to extender won't work? If that is the case then putting the extender at the primary router side...outside on my terrace and then extending the roof-top router antenna to the edge (50-75 feet) would be the right think to do? Maybe a directional antenna at the roof pointing at the extender?

Dave

dj0qn

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Re: Remote via wireless bridge to apartment roof.
« Reply #6 on: 2019-01-03, 21:58:39 »
Hi Dave,

I guess you didn't look at the link I sent you, so I will try to explain it.

No, they are designed to work in pairs. This keep the technical level the same and ensures that there
is no problem with one end being too low a signal strength to cause problems.

In your case, the the distance between the two will be close enough that you may be able to get away to
using only one on the roof to your existing router, but no guarantee.

The advantage of the Nanostation series vs the bullets that I use is that they have an integrated antenna.
The range is only a few miles, but obviously not a problem in your case. Since they function as a bridge,
the one on the roof can replace your existing router there, if one is already installed.

As you will see on Amazon and other sites, they are very reasonably priced.

I hope this explains it.

73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX


VE7VR

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Re: Remote via wireless bridge to apartment roof.
« Reply #7 on: 2019-01-03, 23:47:23 »
Thanks for the detail Mitch

I bought he Ubiquiti NanoStation M5 and am about to add it to the network. I did see that it is normally sold in pairs but snce the distance is ultimately only about 120 feet point to point, I thought two might be overkill since I already had the router. I can get another one if this doesn't work right.

If I did use two, is the 5GHz signal able to penetrate the building or is it line of sight? The building is all concrete and rebar.

Part of this is also to try and stay as hidden as possible. There is nothing at the building edge to attach anything significant. The plan it to have a SteppIR vertical up there...in the middle of the roof. It will be seen from a block away but not by the people in the penthouse or below.

I will play with this and report progress shortly.

Dave

dj0qn

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Re: Remote via wireless bridge to apartment roof.
« Reply #8 on: 2019-01-04, 00:16:20 »
Hi Dave,

I say your idea to test it out first will make the most sense. I would think that using
a pair of Nanostations may be able to bridge through the building, but hard to say for
sure. I doubt that using the router as one end will be able to go through the building,
but you can try. It is always hard to judge these sort of things, since 5 GHz does not
penetrate concrete and steel very well.

You can increase the power output on some channels using European firmware, but I don't
think that is legal in the U.S. That is why Ubiquity sells high-power versions as well.

Good luck and keep us informed.

73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX

VE7VR

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Re: Remote via wireless bridge to apartment roof.
« Reply #9 on: 2019-01-19, 02:01:55 »
Hello Mitch

Good news!

I ended up enlisting the help of a local WiFi company here in Vancouver (The WiFi Guys) to help with the final installation. They use Ubiquiti hardware all the time and made sure everything was configured right. We installed the roof top unit and the two linked very easily. He even turned down the power output since it ended up being overkill. What helped was making a PVC pipe arrangement which allowed the upper unit to look over the edge of the building creating a line of site link. Once that was done, a cable from the PoE injector LAN connector was put into an ethernet switch along with the RRC1258 and the RC1216H for the SteppIR control and everything is functional. Now I need to add the antenna but at least I know the link is solid.

Thanks for your help and suggestions.

I have a 3 month test period before getting final approval so hopefully it will go well. :)

73, Dave VE7VR

dj0qn

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Re: Remote via wireless bridge to apartment roof.
« Reply #10 on: 2019-01-19, 03:50:21 »
Hi Dave,

Thanks for the update and glad that all is working as you hoped it would. I am also
glad that you are using decent hardware, which really can make a difference.

73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX