Remote Rig
RRC 1258 Support in English => General discussion forum => Topic started by: K7FD on 2011-07-17, 17:26:29
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Anyone have the magical settings to connect from open wi-fi back to their radio RRC's? I am using a laptop and LinkSys WET610N wireless bridge to scan for open wi-fi spots, connecting, then moving Ethernet cable to my control RRC and TS-480SAT.
The only success I have had with this lash up, so far, has been connecting to a 'visitor wi-fi' at my workplace. There I scanned with the wireless bridge, found the wi-fi, entered the password, connected, moved Ethernet cable from laptop to control RRC, and the TS-480SAT immediately connected to the radio RRC when I powered up the Kenwood faceplate.
So I am wondering what the difference is between the wireless wi-fi at my workplace and wireless wi-fi hotspots. I have tried the local library, Starbucks, McDonalds, etc....all without successfully connecting to the radio RRC.
One other note, when connected to the workplace wi-fi I can browse to my DynDNS address and bring up the webpage to see radio RRC settings, no problem. However, when I connect a laptop to Starbucks, McDonalds, etc. I can NOT browse to my DynDNS address. Does this mean these wi-fi hotspots are blocking something?
As Mitch says, there needs to be a 'Networking for Dummies' for guys like me, hi! All replies appreciated...
73 John K7FD
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John,
Did you first log on onto the service before you disconnected the bridge? Wireless networks
virtually always require you to confirm the terms and conditions on a web page, only after
that point are you given internet access. Connected it to the router alone doesn't work. The
reason is that your WLAN hardware's (in this case the bridge) MAC address is entered into a
table on the Radius server and is authorized access at that point.
73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX
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Mitch, yes I did log into the Starbucks agreement page before disconnecting the wireless bridge Ethernet cable from laptop and moving it to the control (user) RRC...
Just for a test to make sure I had a good connection from Starbucks, I disabled the wireless NIC in the laptop and changed the laptop Ethernet port back to DHCP after I made connection with the wireless bridge. I then connected the cable coming from the wireless bridge into the laptop Ethernet port and had no problem browsing the internet from Starbucks. So I know the signal on the cable from the wireless bridge was a good one...
So I know I have a good connection to Starbucks wi-fi. But for some reason, the control RRC doesn't like it well enough to connect back to the radio RRC in my ham shack...
BTW, I opted for the wireless bridge because I would like to only use the laptop to scan for wi-fi networks, then put it away. I don't want to have a laptop running once I get things connected. Just the Kenwood, the control RRC, and wireless bridge...at least that's what I am hoping for...
...because these devices all run off 12 VDC making it easy to power everything in the field. My laptop is 19VDC and the internal batteries never last long...hi.
73 John K7FD
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John,
The problem is likely that the bridge is allowing the device it connects with to use DHCP
to receive an IP number from the wireless router (Radius server). This device's MAC
address is entered into the Radius server. Switching to the RRC, which has a different MAC
address, causes it not to work.
You need to see if you can change the bridge to work in a different (router) mode that in
turn has its own DHCP server and only shows pulls one IP address from the Radius server.
73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX
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Mitch, I see no settings in the wireless bridge web interface page. I guess it's back to using a laptop to get wireless signal and bridge to internal Ethernet port? I have tried to do this in XP and get nowhere.
If I right click on the wireless connection setting in XP, go to Properties, Advance tab, check 'Allow other network users to connect through this computer's Internet Connection' I don't seem to have any signal at the laptop Ethernet port when I have a wireless connection. I plug the control RRC into the laptop Ethernet port and PWR light just blinks green...never goes on steady.
Do I bridge the wireless connection and local Ethernet connection together? If so, then I get a message that says 'To create a Network Bridge, you must select at least two LAN or High Speed Internet connections that are not being used by Internet Connection Sharing'. Pressing OK does nothing.
I am stymied as to how this is supposed to be set up so you can actually bridge the wireless signal received on the laptop over to the Ethernet port on the laptop...so I can plug in the control RRC...
Any help appreciated!
John K7FD
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Hi John,
To bridge the two, you mark them with the control key and the right mouse click to
get the menu to bridge them. I have have very bad experience using XP in
this manner and have given up, since I get too many blue screens. Maybe you will
have better luck.
If you send me the type of bridge you are using, I can download the manual and see
if it is possible to switch to router mode.
That is why I always carry two different kinds of routers and bridges with me:
1) A Netgear WNCE2001: this is a pure bridge, like what you are describing. I use this
in the following manner:
a) Access wireless networks with encryption, i.e. WPA or WEP. These networks generally
are private and do not use a Radius server behind them.
b) Access wireless networks with neither encryption, nor use a Radius server. This is somewhat
rare here and usually is at private homes where the owner doesn't use encryption.
2) A Linksys WTR54GS: This is a router with ethernet and wireless "outputs", I use it for:
a) Access wireless networks with no encryption, but do use a radius server. This covers
most hot spots in the part of Europe I live in or in the case where you must "sign" an agreement.
It allows you to pay once for the wireless connectivity, but use it among several users or devices.
b) Access same as 1b above, but only when I want to offer my independent wireless network.
73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX
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OK Mitch...yes, I've tried marking both wireless and local connection with control key and then right clicking. That's the easy part, hi. Only nothing seems to happen when I set up an internal bridge in the laptop, hi!
The wireless bridge I have is a LinkSys WET610N. Maybe I need to get the second Netgear one you listed. I'll check into it!
John K7FD
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I also thought all my connection problems were due to blocking at Starbucks, McDonalds, etc. This was trying with the 1258 connected to my laptop and also when using the PC Client. It's not them. It is a setup problem on your end.
I don't know about the method you are using by switching from the laptop to the 1258. As pointed out the 1258 would not be recognized due to the different MAC address.
I never got the 1258 to work at a hotspot and switched to the PC Client as it required carrying a lot less stuff around. I went through a lot of aggravation before realizing that I had both Port Forwarding and DMZ active on my router. Using one or the other solved my problem as I mentioned on another of your posts. I'm sure it would work now.
It sounds to me like you may be trying to use ICS and Bridging at the same time. It has to be one or the other. You must disable ICS if you want to use a bridge. I don't think you can eliminate the laptop for logging in to a free wi-fi hotspot.
I am running a rather unconvential setup now. I use the PC Client with my laptop to connect to the 1258 Radio unit for my audio connections and I use LogMeIn to connect to my Shack computer where I have a choice of running DX Lab, Writelog, and HRD. I don't like HRD although I really like the front panel look for rig control. I prefer to use FSK for RTTY and I have yet to discover a way to do that with HRD.
The hookup for PC Client also makes it easy for me to quickly connect from my work PC. Just plug it in fire up the software and go. They won't let me connect my laptop to the network at my office.
I do have the ability to use HRD over the Internet but then I have no access to the other two programs. I don't have a way to remotely switch serial ports.
Good luck working out all the bugs.
73 de Walt, W6SA
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Thanks for your input, Walt! Sounds like I have a challenge ahead of me trying to get the control RRC to work from a wi-fi hotspot, especially since you've been down that path and decided instead to go with a pc interface to your ham station.
My whole goal is to have the look and feel of being at my station, thus HRD, etc. doesn't float my boat. I'm interested in having the actual TS-480SAT front panel with me wherever I go, something I am hoping the RRC boxes will accomplish. My xyl and I vacation a lot in our RV and it would be nice to park outside a wireless hotspot and connect back to a decent antenna at home vs. the Hustler mobile whip, hi. Many of the RV parks are equipped with wi-fi also, so I'm hoping to find a solution...
73 John K7FD
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Hello,
About 2 years ago I stayed at a place called "Value Place" in Ft. Myers, Florida which is like an "Extended Stay" hotel and was there for a month. I was doing some work, and found I couldn't use Windows Remote Desktop (RDP) from Value Place after I had passed their agreements page. I couldn't use VNC either. But I can browse and check my email. So it is possible many public wi-fi hotspots do block services. I had to use a Verizon USB "dongle" to do my work.
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I discarded the LinkSys wireless bridge idea and finally figured out how to 'share' the wireless connection with the local Ethernet connection in the laptop. The reason I had trouble getting this to kick into gear was failure to restart computer after enabling sharing. Once I shared and restarted, then laptop Ethernet port was 'hot'.
Next I installed Microbit Setup Manager locally on the laptop. With USB cable from the control RRC to the laptop, I ran Setup Manager and ran the GET button for the Net Info tab to see what DHCP address had been assigned. Once armed with this, I brought up the web browser and managed the control RRC from there (when I'm in the shack here with my local wireless network, I need to change my DynDNS name to the 192.168.1.228 address)...
I was very pleased when the Kenwood TS-480SAT front panel powered up going through the shared wireless to Ethernet connection! At this point, I went back into the control RRC set up and changed the 192.168.1.228 back to my DynDNS name...I was ready for yet another trip into town to find a wireless hotspot!
Since it was almost 9pm, McDonald's was about the only thing open in town (we live in a SMALL town). I pulled the RV in and hooked everything up...Kenwood TS-480SAT front panel, control RRC box, and my laptop. The laptop had no trouble connecting to McDonald's 'attwifi' signal. Next I plugged the Ethernet cable from the control RRC box into the laptop Ethernet port, changing the blinking PWR light to solid and steady! "This is looking better", I thought to myself as I reached for the TS-480SAT power button...
BINGO! On comes the front panel and I'm listening to a QSO on 40 meters! This deserves a chocolate milkshake and side of fries...
73 John K7FD
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CONGRATULATIONS! ;D
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I have the same stuff so I was following with great interest. Congratulations!
Bill WS4Y
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I have been able to successfully connect to Starbucks and McDonald's wi-fi hotspots but when I lose the connection or try a different RRC configuration in the control RRC, then I am unable to reconnect to the wi-fi spot. When I first set up and connect the laptop to the wi-fi (Windows 7 wireless connection/bridge to Ethernet) the control RRC connects and the green PWR LED goes from blinking to steady.
But if I change control RRC configuration and the RRC restarts, then I cannot reconnect to the w-fi. The green PWR LED just continues to blink. I'm wondering how I can 'clear' whatever is keeping me from reconnecting so I can connect back up again. Not an expert here, but maybe the wi-fi thinks I am already connected and won't let me reconnect?
I can come back to same wi-fi hotspot later in the day and it will reconnect...but only after time elapses.
On a side note, I am trying to determine the best settings to minimize jitter and drops...not there yet, hi. Sometimes I can get a super connection with solid streaming, other times it is hit and miss with jitter. I'm beginning to think the w-fi connections are going to be 'iffy' at best due to slow speeds, other laptop connections, etc. Sure wish I had a cable modem at both ends wherever I roamed, hi!
73 John K7FD
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John,
The next time that happens, call-up a DOS window and type: "ipconfig /release" into it. Then connect
to the wireless network again. I bet this solves your problem.
73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX
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Mitch, I did that. But I also then typed ipconfig /renew ...
Should I not do the /renew?
And after I type ipconfig /release should I restart anything? RRC? Laptop?
Thanks!
John K7FD
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John,
That doesn't always work with wireless networks, so that is why I said to reconnect to the
network afterward. It wouldn't hurt to restart the RRC after you are booked back in.
73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX
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I have been operating remote this weekend and having fun! Connection is through a wi-fi connection at an RV park along the central Oregon coast. The connection has been 99% rock solid resulting in several QSOs on 40m cw. I think they have decent bandwidth here!
With my xyl N7SG on her iPAD and me on my XP laptop, we had time to fiddle with jitter settings. It may differ from connection to connection, but at this hot spot the best overall results (with little break up) was jitter buffer size at 7 and jitter delay set at 8. Packet size 20. Annette changed the radio RRC settings and I changed the control settings...it was great team work and made flipping back and forth between RRC settings a piece of cake.
One area I continue to have trouble with is the inconsistency connecting the control RRC to wireless networks. Nothing ever seems to work twice the same way, hi. Sometimes bridging the wireless card to the Ethernet card works, sometimes using ICS in XP and sharing the wireless connection works. I have yet to figure out a way of connecting that works the same way every time...
Yesterday bridging connected, this morning only ICS would connect. Same wi-fi. Strange.
Question: what's the best way to identify your station when remote? What do you tell the operator on the other end, too. So far, I've just sent "I'm operating my home station over the Internet from this QTH"...
Lastly, is there any legal FCC issues not physically being at the station; I guess I have control, so all is OK...
73 John K7FD
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John,
You are "located" at your station, not where you are remotely located. It is as
if you had a long microphone cable.
73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX
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Hi Guys, I know this post is dated but I figured this would be useful for others asking the same questions.
Mitch is right on.
from the book> "Remote Operating for Amateur Radio" published by ARRL
"As far as the FCC is concerned, the Internet is just a very long cable. In this situation the FCC´s concern is limited to the issue of who controls the host station and how they identify themselves on the air. It doesn´t matter where the operator is located; he could be across the street or on the opposite side of the world"
73!
Lee
WW2DX
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Can the WI-Fi in the remote RRC box connect at 5 ghz or only 2.54 ghz. I seem to be finding more and more hot spots are not using 2.54 ghz but only 5 ghz.
Ed W0SD
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Ed,
It can only do 2.4 GHz.
You can't anyway use the internal card for open WiFi hotspots that require a web login (Radius Server),
like at a hotel. For these you would need an external WiFi bridge.
73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX
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Hi Mitch,
I am trying to use ICS as described below in a post but it does not work for me. I am using Win7Pro.
I am having good results using ICS (Internet Connection Sharing) in Windows 7. Go into Network & Sharing Center and then to Adapter settings. Right-click the wireless connection, and under the sharing tab, enable sharing. Plug a CROSSOVER Ethernet cable from your notebook's Ethernet jack to the RRC-Control box. A standard Ethernet cable will NOT work.
Make sure to enable DHCP on the RRC box.
Connect to the hotel's wifi with the notebook's browser, and give it whatever info they ask for, like your room number, or sometimes just "agree" to their policies, and make sure the notebook is able to access the internet. Your RRC box should be able to get out to the internet now.
Charlie KB8BWE
So Mitch I believe you are telling me I need a hardware bridge external to my Laptop. Can you give me some details please?
Ed W0SD
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More info from W0SD. The information posted by Charlie KB8BWE is good information but for me it was missing something I probably should of understood and certainly if you read about ICS (Internet Connection Sharing) in Windows you see it is necessary to have two adapter cards activated. You need to activate/enable a LAN adapter card and a wireless card at a hotspot. The LAN adapter card can be connected to a LAN switch or for a hotspot hook up it can be connected from your Computer LAN connection to the Control RRC box. For what I am trying to do with remote rig is to use the least amount of equipment possible so I don't want to use a LAN switch. As Charlie says in this case with no switch it needs to be a cross over cable. This LAN adapter will not be connected to the Internet but will say it is working properly and it should say "allow your computer to access resources on a Microsoft network".
The other thing I found was when setting up the wireless adapter you also need to choose the other LAN connection adapter we activated/enabled. You may have to chose it from a drop down menu if you have others. You should now be ready to go but in case DHCP is not activated in the control DHCP box you can use the mini USB cable with Microbit manager and browse to the control box and be sure it is set to DHCP.
If you get an error try windows connection trouble shooter and they may resolve it. If it is XP you can do the release and then renew as posted here. As far as I know Win10 is pretty much the same as Win7Pro but I am going on what I read and I might not be understanding something correctly.
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Hi Ed,
Just to give you some historical information: during the early years of RemoteRig, I was really pushing ICS on this
forum. That not only solve the bridging problem, but also solves the (mainly European) problem where they were
charging for internet access everywhere and that allows you to only be charged once.
Unfortunately, no one could seem to get it working. Many complained and gave-up in frustration. Then a white knight
came on the scene: the Netgear WCS2001 and that 35€ investment solved the problem nicely.
The bottom line is that I at least tend to help people go the route of least resistance. ICS has potential, but is a huge
PITA to get working and at least I am not able to support it well enough. That is why I recommend using an external
bridge.
Now you know the rest of the story.
73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX
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Hi Mitch,
I understand. Can you sent me a check list for using the netgear bridge router?
Thanks!
Ed W0SD
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Hi Ed,
To use any bridge, such as the Netgear, just follow the general directions:
- Best to shut off the PC's WiFi card first to be on the safe side
- Plug the bridge into the PC's ethernet port
- Call-up the bridge's web server using the directions on the bridge (an IP number or alias, e.g. the Netgear uses www.mywifiext.net)
- Use the bridge's web interface to connect to the WiFi you want to use
- Log into the Radius Server using a browser if required (i.e. agree to terms or to pay)
- At that point, the bridge should function as the PC's WiFi card. Test out a web page or two to make sure it is working
- Unplug the bridge from the PC's ethernet port and plug it into the RRC's ethernet port
- Turn on the RRC and test it out - it should work fine
- Turn back on the PC's WiFi and use as usual
73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX
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Great! I will look into this as a back up to my ICS plan. I also am looking at using my smart phone as a hot spot and using the control RRC box with Wi-Fi and connect to my cellular hot spot using 2.54 ghz. It obviously will use some data so I have to see how well it goes. In my case I am retired so I would not be doing this from a lot of places and data useage is rapidly coming down in price.
As you know a lot of the motel hot spots are not so great!!!! Some like McDonalds seem to work well but are not so secure.
Again thanks Mitch! Down the road a bit I will report on my findings!
Ed W0SD
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Hi Mitch,
I will post again in case someone is searching for solutions to using remote rig from hot spots. Another alternative to free hot spots is to create your own hot spot with your cell phone. I am using a Verizon Hot Spot as part of my Verizon Cell Phone Plan. The down side is there is the cost for the DATA but the cost of DATA is coming down with many having unlimited DATA. I don't have unlimited DATA with my plan but I can stay under my allocation with limited hot spot useage. The upside is that it is secure, the speed is very good and as long as you have a good cellular connection you don't need to "fight" a poor Wi-Fi signal at a hot spot, dead spots or no Wi-Fi signal, lack off connectivity, being very slow, security, etc. You just activate the hot spot on your phone and lay the phone nearby and connect to it using wi-fi in your remote rig control box and your password.
One simple option is to install the Wi-Fi option in the remote rig control box. You can then connect your control box to the cell phone hot spot you use via wi-fi. The speed seems very good. This gets away for the public free wi-fi problem of connecting your control box which requires a LAN connection. If you don't want to get the Wi-Fi option for your remote rig control box then you can use ICS or a Bridge. You could use ICS or the Bridge to the free Wi-Fi hot spot or you can set up your own hot spot with your cell phone and use your DATA allocation. Information on ICS and using a bridge is posted in this same thread.
It goes without saying but you can now set up your own hot spot where ever you want or even mobile as long as you have good cellular coverage where you are at. For boats or RV's or camping or places that don't have Wi-Fi this is a way to do it especially if you already have an unlimited DATA plan. I have found remote rig does not take a lot of DATA when used in a limited fashion. You can plug in your phone if battery time is a concern. In the case of Verizon I can increase the DATA for that month and any extra carries over.
Verizon blocks SIP port 5060 so as remote rig says don't use port 5060. I am no network Guru so if I can make this work you can also! I have done ICS. I have not done bridging but I am sure Mitch can answer any farther questions you might have on bridging.
The easiest is the Android phone app but it is limited in use. What I have been able to do with the Wi-Fi cell phone hot spot is to use my Mini K3/0 is not limited and now I can do RTTY, sound card digital, CW, SSB and repeaters with my K3. If you use different radio's you have similar options. I also do it with my TM-V71A dual banders. It would also works well with HF remote head radios like the TS-480.
Ed W0SD
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Hi Ed,
I have been using my phone as a hot spot with mixed success, mainly to give demos. You basically need
to know for sure beforehand that you will have a good enough connection to make RemoteRig work. I
simulate my home WiFi network through my phone for that purpose. Unfortunately, I have fallen on my
face a couple of times where the coverage let me down, so I try to use WiFi whenever possible.
You also need to take the latency into account. It has gotten much better over the last couple of years,
especially on LTE (4G). I highly recommend that you focus only on using LTE for this reason.
Never, ever use port 5060 for your SIP port. In Europe, virtually all routers have built-in VoIP that blocks this
port for internal use. Also, many hotels now use VoIP and port 5060, as well as providers like Verizon block
this port completely. Luckily, Microbit changed the default a couple of years ago, as this is what was causing
most support problems. My Networking Checklist also has mentioned this from day one.
Good luck and have fun!
73,
Mitch DJ0QN / K7DX