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General discussion forum / FT-8800 + Remoterig 1258 MKII-S not functional for long term use
« on: 2013-05-06, 16:49:51 »
I developed the document below that describes the problem and how to simulate/duplicate the problem. After 4 months of struggling with this problem we finally figured out the problem. We will welcome any comments from the Remoterig guys and readers of this forum. We would also be very interested if you can duplicate this problem in the FT-8900 or FT-8700? Please follow the steps below precisely to replicate the problem. Thanks for any inputs.
Bill Kline, N4TIC:
I have the Remoterig 1258 MKII-S Set and the Yaesu FT-8800R dual band 2M/440 radio. We have had issues with this setup from the beginning and have been baffled until now. We are now sure that there is a compatibility problem between the FT-8800 and the Remoterig. The only way that this can be fixed is with a firmware change in the FT-8800. Without this change, the FT-8800 paired with the Remoterig 1258 MKII-S Set is not functional for long term use. The following is how to simulate the problem with the FT-8800 and a description of what happens when the system becomes “locked up” and nonfunctional.
How to simulate FT-8800 issue with Remoterig. You do not need the Remoterig boxes to make this happen; you can simulate the problem with the FT-8800 alone.
Follow these directions:
1. Connect FT-8800 faceplate to the FT-8800 radio – you can use the separation cable or the short (4 inch long) connector.
1. Connect the power cord from the radio to a power supply (13.8V). Depending on the last state that the radio was in, it will either come on or you may need to press the power-on button to turn on the radio. The faceplate will come on and the radio will be functional/normal.
2. Leave the radio turned on – ie, faceplate is on. Disconnect the power from the radio – ie, disconnect the 13.8V supply. The faceplate will turn off.
3. Disconnect the separation cable or short connector between the faceplate and the radio; remember there is no power going to the radio.
4. Connect the power cord from the radio to the power supply (13.8V); remember the faceplate is not connected to the radio.
5. With power (13.8V) still connected to the radio; connect FT-8800 faceplate to the FT-8800 radio – you can use the separation cable or the short (4 inch long) connector.
6. Push the power button on the faceplate. The radio will not come on. It is locked up.
Now, leave the faceplate connected to the radio. Disconnect the power to the radio and leave it disconnected for about 10 seconds. Re-connect power to the radio. The faceplate will come on and the radio will power on and be normal again.
Here is the problem. When connected through the Remoterig boxes, as long as there is always power to the radio side and power to the faceplate side; all works fine. However, if power is lost to the radio side while it is powered on, you are left in the situation of #3 above. In other words, the radio goes off, the connection between the radio and the face plate (thru the Remoterig boxes and over the internet); and this causes the faceplate to turn off. Even though the faceplate still has supplied power on its side; because the radio is now off the faceplate goes off too. It does this because the radio side has lost power.
Because the connection between the faceplate and radio has been lost, this is the same as situation #4 above. The “separation cable” which is really the connection from Control Remoterig box, over the internet, to the Radio side Remoterig box. You are then in a catch 22. When power is restored to the radio – situation #5 above, there is no connection between faceplate and radio over the internet because that connection no longer exists.
Then, when you try to power the faceplate on going thru the Remoterig boxes over the internet, you are now doing items #6 & 7 above. The faceplate tries to connect to the radio but it is already connected to power as in situations #6 & 7 above so the radio will not come on.
The only way to fix this is to physically bring the faceplate to the radio; disconnect power to the radio; connect faceplate to the radio. Wait about 10 seconds. Connect power to the radio. Faceplate and radio will come on. Then it will work over the internet again until the above – loss of power to the radio side occurs again. Then another trip to bring the faceplate and radio together is needed to reset the system.
Looking at the schematic for the FT-8800. The RJ12 Modular Plug on the radio chassis has 6 conductors, labeled 1 thru 6. Pin 2 on the radio chassis (Pin 5 on the front panel output) is labeled Power SW; pin 4 on the chassis (pin 3 on the front panel cable) ) is labeled GND. Under normal operation, Power SW is pulled up to +5V relative to GND. When you push the power-on button on the faceplate, the logic signal Power SW is grounded, causing the power-on state to toggle. This is what powers the radio and faceplate on. What is different from normal, in situation #6 & 7 above, is that there is no longer 5V present on pin 5 (RJ12 Modular Plug on the radio). It makes sense that the Remoterig box is trying to ground pin 5 to pin 3 on the radio but it has no effect. Just like there is no effect in #7 above because 5V is not present on pin 5.
======================
The following is some more background during our discussions – Jim, AB4CZ with Bill, N4TIC:
I suspect that when you power on the radio (apply 12 Volts to the radio, not the "power switch") the main body of the radio powers up for a couple of seconds and queries the front panel. If it doesn't find a front panel, it shuts down. That's the only way I can see that the rig doesn't have a logic high on the Power SW pin on the front panel interface connector. In other words, if the front panel isn't attached when the power is applied to the radio, the radio doesn't ever power up and can't respond to signals at the front panel connector. Apparently the Remoterig can't connect to the radio unless it is powered on, so we have a Catch 22. Remoterig can't identify the radio unless it's powered on, and the radio can't power on unless Remoterig is connected and communicating with the front panel.
Bill Kline, N4TIC:
I have the Remoterig 1258 MKII-S Set and the Yaesu FT-8800R dual band 2M/440 radio. We have had issues with this setup from the beginning and have been baffled until now. We are now sure that there is a compatibility problem between the FT-8800 and the Remoterig. The only way that this can be fixed is with a firmware change in the FT-8800. Without this change, the FT-8800 paired with the Remoterig 1258 MKII-S Set is not functional for long term use. The following is how to simulate the problem with the FT-8800 and a description of what happens when the system becomes “locked up” and nonfunctional.
How to simulate FT-8800 issue with Remoterig. You do not need the Remoterig boxes to make this happen; you can simulate the problem with the FT-8800 alone.
Follow these directions:
1. Connect FT-8800 faceplate to the FT-8800 radio – you can use the separation cable or the short (4 inch long) connector.
1. Connect the power cord from the radio to a power supply (13.8V). Depending on the last state that the radio was in, it will either come on or you may need to press the power-on button to turn on the radio. The faceplate will come on and the radio will be functional/normal.
2. Leave the radio turned on – ie, faceplate is on. Disconnect the power from the radio – ie, disconnect the 13.8V supply. The faceplate will turn off.
3. Disconnect the separation cable or short connector between the faceplate and the radio; remember there is no power going to the radio.
4. Connect the power cord from the radio to the power supply (13.8V); remember the faceplate is not connected to the radio.
5. With power (13.8V) still connected to the radio; connect FT-8800 faceplate to the FT-8800 radio – you can use the separation cable or the short (4 inch long) connector.
6. Push the power button on the faceplate. The radio will not come on. It is locked up.
Now, leave the faceplate connected to the radio. Disconnect the power to the radio and leave it disconnected for about 10 seconds. Re-connect power to the radio. The faceplate will come on and the radio will power on and be normal again.
Here is the problem. When connected through the Remoterig boxes, as long as there is always power to the radio side and power to the faceplate side; all works fine. However, if power is lost to the radio side while it is powered on, you are left in the situation of #3 above. In other words, the radio goes off, the connection between the radio and the face plate (thru the Remoterig boxes and over the internet); and this causes the faceplate to turn off. Even though the faceplate still has supplied power on its side; because the radio is now off the faceplate goes off too. It does this because the radio side has lost power.
Because the connection between the faceplate and radio has been lost, this is the same as situation #4 above. The “separation cable” which is really the connection from Control Remoterig box, over the internet, to the Radio side Remoterig box. You are then in a catch 22. When power is restored to the radio – situation #5 above, there is no connection between faceplate and radio over the internet because that connection no longer exists.
Then, when you try to power the faceplate on going thru the Remoterig boxes over the internet, you are now doing items #6 & 7 above. The faceplate tries to connect to the radio but it is already connected to power as in situations #6 & 7 above so the radio will not come on.
The only way to fix this is to physically bring the faceplate to the radio; disconnect power to the radio; connect faceplate to the radio. Wait about 10 seconds. Connect power to the radio. Faceplate and radio will come on. Then it will work over the internet again until the above – loss of power to the radio side occurs again. Then another trip to bring the faceplate and radio together is needed to reset the system.
Looking at the schematic for the FT-8800. The RJ12 Modular Plug on the radio chassis has 6 conductors, labeled 1 thru 6. Pin 2 on the radio chassis (Pin 5 on the front panel output) is labeled Power SW; pin 4 on the chassis (pin 3 on the front panel cable) ) is labeled GND. Under normal operation, Power SW is pulled up to +5V relative to GND. When you push the power-on button on the faceplate, the logic signal Power SW is grounded, causing the power-on state to toggle. This is what powers the radio and faceplate on. What is different from normal, in situation #6 & 7 above, is that there is no longer 5V present on pin 5 (RJ12 Modular Plug on the radio). It makes sense that the Remoterig box is trying to ground pin 5 to pin 3 on the radio but it has no effect. Just like there is no effect in #7 above because 5V is not present on pin 5.
======================
The following is some more background during our discussions – Jim, AB4CZ with Bill, N4TIC:
I suspect that when you power on the radio (apply 12 Volts to the radio, not the "power switch") the main body of the radio powers up for a couple of seconds and queries the front panel. If it doesn't find a front panel, it shuts down. That's the only way I can see that the rig doesn't have a logic high on the Power SW pin on the front panel interface connector. In other words, if the front panel isn't attached when the power is applied to the radio, the radio doesn't ever power up and can't respond to signals at the front panel connector. Apparently the Remoterig can't connect to the radio unless it is powered on, so we have a Catch 22. Remoterig can't identify the radio unless it's powered on, and the radio can't power on unless Remoterig is connected and communicating with the front panel.